Killing in the name of…

This makes me sick. Just plain sick. According to a report in the New York Times, hundreds, if not thousands of innocent, civilian Afghan citizens have died in US attacks, during the undeclared war on terror.
Now, let me be clear here, because my posts like this usually bring out the name-callers: I am horrified by, and I am still processing the reality of the terrible, terrible attacks on September 11th. I want very badly for the people who did it to be brought to justice, and pay for what they did, and I want to be sure that things like this don’t happen again.
But I don’t think that killing innocent people, identified as “collateral damage”, is right.
Consider this: the people in the WTC and Pentagon, and on those planes were completely innocent, right? Just people, going through their day. Maybe some of them had left a sleeping spouse, at home, or left their kid at school without a goodbye kiss.
The evil sub-humans who murdered thousands of innocent people didn’t have a quarrel with them, personally. Their quarrel is with the leadership and foreign policy of the United States, right? So, from their horribly twisted perspective, the people who died on 9/11: the mothers, sons, infants, fathers, daughters, husbands and wives, were just “collateral damage”, right?
NOTE (4:14 PM): Wrong. They were, as has been pointed out, intentional targets. After many notes and emails, I have really reconsidered my thought here: these people who died on 9/11 were intentional targets, murdered by terrorists, and not collateral damage, as I said. I was way, way, way off, and I’m putting foot into mouth. There is a huge difference between a bomb that goes astray, and the intentional targeting of civilians. I’m really glad that people have pointed out my glaring error, and, rather than pride fully insist that I am correct, it’s much more important to me to admit that I was wrong.
I guess that my point is that I don’t like this concept of “collateral damage”, regardless of whose side you’re on. I also don’t even like the term. It’s too antiseptic, and fails to convey the brutal reality. It should be called what it is: The Killing of Innocent Civilians.
Innocent people do not deserve to die, especially because of a conflict that isn’t between people, but between nations.
If I, or someone I loved had died on that day, I would not want an Afghan child to die in the pursuit of my, or my loved one’s killer.
It also really bothers me that everyone, from the man in the street, to the members of the media, to the leaders in our government, are calling this a war, when congress hasn’t declared war. I realize that this is probably pedantic to most people, but I think that the separation of powers is extremely important, and if the cause is just, the President should ask for, and receive from Congress, a declaration of war. Doesn’t this bother anyone else? I mean, of course it’s a war. But why hasn’t it been formally declared? And, while I’m at it, because I’m pretty sure the flames will begin to surge my way, shouldn’t the my government take a good, hard look at why the rest of the world hates us so much? I mean, let’s get the bad guys, absolutely, but shouldn’t we also take a good, honest, fearless look at our foreign policy, and ask ourselves if maybe we need to make some changes?
Let me clarify just a few other things, too: If you’re a serviceman or woman, I don’t have a problem with you, or the choice you’ve made to defend our country. It seems that every time I question the morality of a war, or the motives of our leadership, I get flooded with emails and comments from insulted members of the armed forces, and I’d like to head that off, if it’s at all possible. The same way that I don’t want to be blamed for a lousy episode of TNG, I don’t blame you for a war that I don’t agree with. I know, a thin comparison, but I think you get my point.
I realize that, in war, civilian deaths are inevitable, but that doesn’t mean that I have to like it, and I fear that there are people who will read this story, and it won’t bother them a bit that a mother lost a son in our pursuit of the terrorists.
Countless Iraqi civilians died during the Operation Desert Storm, simply because they were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and I heard people proclaiming that they deserved it, because they were Iraqi, and therefore automatically supported Saddam. I think that’s insane.
So this started out as an indignant post about the deaths of civilians in Afghanistan, but it’s turned into some rambling thoughts on the deaths of innocents in any war…I bet I’d get a low grade if I turned this in as a paper, but it’s what’s on my mind today. So there.
I also realize that most Americans are still reeling over the events of 9/11, and I apologize in advance if my thoughts here offend anyone.

288 thoughts on “Killing in the name of…”

  1. Davis, you’re as welcome to your opinion as I am to mine. I could be wrong but I believe you had a threat in that post towards me and certainly a lot of name calling. Well I’m going to extend the the same invitation to you that I do to all who care to start the name calling when the discussion gets heated or they don’t like what’s being said. Come on over and say it to my face. Toe to toe. I am right here in Culver City, CA.
    I won’t bother calling you any names on this post. I’ll wait till you bring it here. I don’t see anyone holding you back. In fact, don’t even bother putting up a retort. You feel so strongly?? Then respond to me in e mail with a time that you will be out here to deliver this ass kicking you so want me to have. Screw it, post whatever you need to but you best be ready to deliver in person gumby. [email protected]
    I’ve got your purple Barney suit right here pal.
    Kman
    P.S. Wil man, I’m sorry it had to come to this but business is business.

  2. Andrew
    You bring up cold fusion. Look at all the research for the past few years in this and you will see this is a fraud. I would recommend that you read the book “Voodoo Science”. The last name of the author is Park I don’t remember his first name. He takes care of this subject a hell of a lot better than I can in a post. It’s great to see that anyone who happens to worry about the environment you refer to them as an enviro-nazi. Just because people care doesn’t mean they care that much. By the way be careful who you insult they may call you on it. (Good for you Kman, sometimes that shit is necessary).
    Also it’s not that hard to find 18,000 people, whatever their profession to sign any petition.

  3. Mike Wiffen,
    You’ve made several good points, but you’re also totally missing mine. Regarding the ice core samples, I know nothing more than what I’ve seen on tv a few times, my intention was not to present it as *proof* that the earth is getting colder. My intent is simply to point out how you’ve got two people saying completely different things about this issue. I also didn’t say anything about Cold Fusion being something of the near future… at this point that thing is just as pie in the sky as 2001 (the movie) is. I know nothing about it so I’m not even going try and debate the science of it.
    One one side you’ve got this group of people running around screaming global warming, telling us that our planet is going to heat up and we’re all going to die. Scientifically they don’t have any solid numbers to back this up, they just don’t. That’s the point plain and simple.
    One the other side you have even more people that say global warming isn’t happening, and there is absolutely nothing to worry about. The difference is that this group, 1. Isn’t “in your face” crazy, 2. Isn’t trying to enslave people, 3. Doesn’t have the conservative-hating media on its side.
    You strike me as someone that really is trying to be level headed, go do some reading. The environmental movement isn’t helping, it’s hurting. Hurting a LOT. If you’d like some links I’d be happy to provide a few starting points.

  4. KMAN, lol. I’m sure saying that makes you feel like a real big man up there in your little world. I must have really struck a nerve with you. Could it be that the peaceful KMAN, that wants to prance around with his “Book of Humanity”, and present it to the Taliban, is a complete hypocrite? You’re kinda going against your whole position now aren’t you?
    “When liberals get mad”, tonight at WilWheaton.net!
    Was I name calling? You damn right I was, and I stand by the statement of you being a coward. You and I both know that you’re “Don’t wind’em up and send ‘em off, send a guy in a barney suit instead” attitude has nothing to do with helping anybody. It has all to do with you not being willing to put your ass on the line to defend your country, and preserve the ideals that allow you make such stupid statements. I’m sure you have a bunker in Canada ready and waiting.
    Regarding a threat? Nice try. There was no threat of any kind made, and you know that. Throwing that in there was just your petty attempt at trying to look like a real tough guy.
    If you have something intelligent to say we may exchange words again, until then have fun in your little selfish world. Oh, and I will reply to your email.

  5. Wil made a comment about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. These innocent people died because they happend to be somewhere that wasn’t safe to be. If I’m a white person and I happen to find myself in East LA, the same thing could happen to me (as have happen to others). In truth we oppose ideas and how do you kill an idea?Hitler is dead, but there are people who today believe the things he believed. I dont think these people deserved to die but at the same time I’m not outraged by it as perhaps I should be and I think we have a lot less control over our lives than we think we do.

  6. Davis responded in e mail with the above post. He feels so strongly about war but cannot be bothered to step this way for a little toe to toe.
    He now wants to have intelligent conversations and whatnot. Not saying we can’t have intelligent conversations, but if you’re gonna name call then step up and do it personal. See how much violence you really want to deal with.
    More than likely your Great Uncle just isn’t that tough mentally. Probably runs in your family. There are plenty of combat vets having survived hellacious experiences that can and do talk about their experiences. Just think, he fought so that you can have the freedom to hurl insults from a safe distance. If they’re such the combat vets you say they are they’d tell you to get your little punk ass over here and kick mine. But you won’t. You can’t.
    Wait a minute, wait a minute. There are combat soldiers in Afghanistan right now, fighting, doing all that shit you admire and yet…and yet, you’re here, a thousand miles from me in Texas posting bullshit on the board. You’re not defending anyone, just insulting peoplee and acting like some tough conservative. Oh it don’t get more cowardly than that.
    Andrew Davis, you’re not a conservative, you’re an asshole. (I said pussy in the e mail but it’s a toss up)There’s a difference.
    Kman

  7. Interesing how those who constantly criticize this country and it’s “foreign policy” rarely have a suggestion on *how* to make it better.
    Here’s a suggestion…. take the “dinner out with the wife” donations and send it to those who really need it.

  8. Name calling and pointless bickering are the tools of an uniformed and petty mind. You tell me to update my vocbulary to include more than 4 letter words, where as you seem to need mastery of more than 3 letter words. I never knew someone had as much “ass” to throw around as you. Lets look at how many times you have used personal attacks and wild imagery (avoiding the topic) to make your point rather than facing each issue head on.
    I need to calm down and take a breath? — Is anyone else thinking he was right in saying this? I mean, yes, i was feeling kind of light headed as i read most of his posts, what with the uncontrollable laughter.
    #1
    **Anti American Enviro Nazi
    There was a quote from a movie i’ll use to respond to this, kinda fudged though to fit this issue.
    “How can you possibly put up with a man claiming to love America, but clearly can’t stand Americans”,
    Andrew, you are the man refered to here. And the movie is American President.
    #2
    **First of all what kind of thinking is that?
    (sigh) First your image of the jumping off the bridge is so far off topic it needs no mention. But if thats what you feel, i wont hold you back from it. Its your life.
    #3
    **did you know that your boy’s Clinton and Gore didn’t even attempt to get the Kyoto treaty passed
    Clinton/Gore aren’t my boys. For the 3rd time, i didn’t even vote for them. Not once. Can you not read? Or is it just more fun for you to ignor that which has been placed mere inches from your face?
    #4
    **and enviro nazis like yourself
    More name calling … Childish.
    #5
    **and since you say they generate the other 75%, shouldn’t their efforts do more than ours?
    Collectively yes. Thats kind of why COLLECTIVELY the rest of the world has the 75% lumped up on their side of that loppsided scale you put them on.
    My point, if its possible for you to understand, is that when you take the US, and ANY SINGLE other nation, the US has a HELL of a lot more to be resposible for in trems of not only what we put out, but what we need to clean up. HENCE why the US has a lot more to do.
    #6
    **Does that mean they’re visionaries, but also spineless worms without the fortitude to do anything without us doing it first? Is that what you said? LOL
    Avoiding the issue once again that the US is the world leader. Who cares what everyone else is doing (flash back to that bridge you were talking about). LET US DO THE RIGHT THING! LET US BE THE ONE TO SET THE STANDARD. LET US BE THE ONES TO TELL THE REST OF THE WORLD IN 20 YEARS “WE TOLD YOU SO”.
    #7
    **Well first of all we’re not.
    As you so magnificently said… DUH! thats the point of the statement! Instead of investing billions more into new drilling rigs for his Texas buddies, why isn’t Bush investing into making fuel cells more effecient (ie, smaller).
    #8
    ** The cheapest and cleanest power at this point is nuclear, with coal coming in a close second.
    Say what??? Does anyone else remember me asking Andrew to put the crack pipe down?? Since when was NUCLEAR power CLEAN????? Oh, wait, that resivor they want to open up in Nevada (see: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/02/01/yucca.mountain/index.html ) is for sewage from nuclear families.. oops. my mistake.
    #9
    **First of all there is no evidence that what you call “pollution” is bad for the environment
    … sorry momentary light headedness brought on by uncontrolable spirts of laughter. Now, once again (as you so clearly avoided my question about how your kids feel standing next to the 20 or 30 buses every day they come home from school, and have you asked their teachers yet, how they feel about it???)
    How many times has LA, Atlanta, or any other *MAJOR* city had air quality alerts in just the past year alone? Anyone? Anyone at all? I’ve seen in the past year more and more stories on local and national news where doctors are complaining about more and more patients with lung problems becuase of the higer ammounts of pollution in the air. Atlanta and LA specifically lead the pack.
    #10
    **Every time a volcano erupts it spits out more “pollution” (as you put it) than humanity has during its entire existence by several times. Do you think we should try and cover all the volcanoes with rubber maid lids? LOL
    No comment, still laughing.
    #11
    **And what does character have to do with being smart, or taking measures to prevent a possible problem in the future?
    Well, since you seem to need it explained to you, i suggest going here http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/65/c0246500.html and specifically reading entired 1 2 and 4.
    #12
    **When you’re looking up the word ‘character’ be sure to lookup ‘hypocrite’ and ‘short-sighted’ as well.
    Ask and you shall receive. Please make sure you read them.
    http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/53/h0365300.html
    sorry short-sighted wasn’t listed.
    #13
    **For all these reasons 18,000 scientists have petitioned together against the enviro nazi crowd
    Again, more name calling, and avoiding the issue. Nice comment by Mike Wiffen (Also it’s not that hard to find 18,000 people, whatever their profession to sign any petition)
    #14
    **we are not at risk of running out of fuels. We have a fairly decent sized amount of oil left (50 years)
    well considering how many years we started with… i’d say thats not much. and the untapped reserves you mention give us what? Another 150? More pollution in the air (global warming or not)… more money in the pockets of the Oil execs. Lets put that money in more useful places… like the offices of scientists trying to make Fuel cells better! Or some other alternative energy.
    #15
    **it hands power over to the U.N.
    Once again, avoiding the issue… did you even bother to really read, not just skim through, but really read my posts? I went over this, but since you seem to need reminding, let me repost it:
    “How does Kyoto give the UN and “rogue nations” power over us? The same way that any other treaty does. By this I mean that if we break a treaty, or exit without following the terms, then we can have sanctions against us. This is the reason Bush cannot just build his missile definse. He must abide by the stipulations of the agreement or face sanctions from the UN. This is a part of ANY treaty, NOT JUST KYOTO!! So again, you get no points here. The puppet strigs you refer to come into play ONLY if we do not meet the terms of the agreement, or exit it. Korea can not stand up and say “This year you can only produce X% of these gases”. No my friend, my dear mislead Andrew. What it means is that if the US fails to meet the terms of the agreement THEN Korea can stand up and say “you failed to meet this agreement, we suggest you straigten up or we place an 10% higher tax on your exports.” See Andrew, the comments your making about giving power over our nation to others is completely bogus. Its a scare tactic used well by many a politician. Heh, look and what they did with Medicare (even if the program is farked beyond reason.)”
    That pretty much cover it for ya? Any confusion on this issue still Andrew?
    #16
    **Are you an Anti-American Mike? I think you are.
    More name calling. Childish. How old are you Andrew?? Pathetic quite frankly. But let me state this, where i’m not Anti-American, i am most certinly Anti-Establishment. Let us ALWAYS question the reasons and motives of our leadership, lest they lead us blind.
    #17
    **Examining the enviro nazi movement as a whole you’ll find that they do nothing to help the environment, but a lot to take freedom away from americans, empower themselves, harm capitalism, and line their pockets at the same time.
    Once again avoiding the issue, and for the pocket lining comment, i’m mention again, ENRON. hehe
    #18
    **By mentioning Enron you made us all aware of your real intent.
    And that is? Come on Andy, dont be shy, let us all know what i’m thinking. Please. Have you bothered finding out what the ENRON scam is all about? Have you bothered to watch the senate board queston the ENRON execs. Did you watch and see how patheticly Skilling attempted to avoid blame for the company going bankrupt, or the execs of the company giving themselves a 50 million dollar bonus literaly 2 weeks before filing bankruptcy?
    Hardly Andrew. Research your facts and come back when you can play with the big boys. We have a kiddie table all set up for you in the mean time.
    Sorry all, thought a dose of his own medicine with the name calling and all might slap some sense into him, though i doubt it will.
    What ENRON has to do in a discussion about terrorisim and the like is a running policy of our government. Bush, like many presidents before him, instead of supporting international causes, as the international leader the US is- should!- is instead pulling all the tenticals inside… funneling money to his buddies in Texas, forcing America to stand alone. Got news for ya Andy, in this day and age that just dont work. This is a world economy. As i stated before, if Japan goes bankrupt, it WILL drag the rest of the world with it. If England or France, the USA, etc etc go belly up, we take the world with us. Look at how many countries depend on our exports, not for entertainment, but for survival! The wolrd is a virtual spiderweb of trade and commerce that Bush specifically (as HE is the one CURRENTLY in office) is cutting many supporting lines to. Just like hes cutting support lines with the Missile Shield (IE England and Russia along with others).
    #19
    **You keep bringing things like this up because that’s what you’re after.
    Once again avoiding the issue… how are you avoiding the issue this time, by not mentioning specifically what it is you think i’m after. So? What is it Andy? Or is this one of you apparently easy flowing, mindless rantings trying to sway favor your way? Oops Foiled again… Blast those kids in the 60′s van…
    #20 1/3
    **I’m very afraid of your persistence and non-stop efforts to enslave all of us with your socialistic ideals.
    (sigh) Everyone, start laughing at the child screaming for attention.
    #20-2/3
    **Regardless what does it have to do with Bush? … If anything illegal was done at Enron, or GC, those responsible should be properly punished for it. Which means jail time.
    Agreed here, but the whole rant about “my” socialist Buddies i dont quite understand. I don’t know anyone who labels themselves as a socialist, nor do i. Sounds like more name calling here. I firmly believe in the constitution and what it stands for, which is why i gave 4 years of mylife to defind it and those i love. What have you done Andy? … Andy? ANDY! Stop playing with the big red button!
    #20 3/3
    **Capitalism and Corporate America are not the enemy
    hmmm… debateable.. but we have enough on our plate as it is. The Ideals are sound, no question, but those running the show are the ones i’m questioning here. Focus Andy. Focus.
    #21
    **are all problems that would solve themselves
    Umm Andy, all of us in the grown up world can tell you no problem ever solves itself.
    What efforts have i been involved in, Andy, that directly resulted in the Energy crisis in Cal? umm? Where are these spys you hire to keep a watch on me?? Damn! They are AWESOME! You’re really getting your monkeys worth!
    Honestly i didn’t know the situation in Cal until i heard it on the news, which is why i didn’t bring it up. I dont know what lead to it, haven’t heard or seen enough of the details yet, so, no comment. Tell ya what though, lets get the Gov. from out there, whats his name, Gov. Gray or Davis, something like that… DOH! Lets get him on here and see what he has to say to you about why California is having problems. After all, he deals with the buisness and private results of the situation.
    #22
    **But in the end I don’t think you care. I know your movement doesn’t care, and while you might be one of the good-natured few, I don’t think so. You are not about progression, you are about yourself. And that’s what all this really boils down to.
    My… thank you for that insight into myself Andy. I feel reborn now. I can see through clearer eyes… (COUGH!) Sorry guys… had to thorw-up… Andy, you dont know me any more than i know you. But if Name calling and finger pointing at people you dont know… If you truely think that someone with a differing opinion than your own is Anti-American, well then… I guess i am that.
    LOOK AT ME EVERYBODY!! LETS ALL GO BE ANTI-AMERICAN TOGEATHER!!
    Pathetic Andy. Shame on you. Pathetic. Kman, keep that purple Barny suit handy. Looks like he’ll be wearing it after all.
    Everybody sing!! “i love you, you love me….”
    Lets review.. 22 avoided topics and name calling sessions. In just one letter. And once again i’ll bring up, how many kids do you have Andy? Or are you still one yourself? Put the Jello pudding snack pack down a sec and pay attention.
    Ask your neighbors how they feel when they think of the 30 or so buses spewing forth their exhaust and their kids standing right there. Hell, ask the people on here how they feel about it. After 8 years i can still taste the aluminum and other metals that are rich in the exhaust of those engines. And if most schools are like mine was, theres not just one wave of buses to pick the kids up, but 2… perhaps even 3. Do you want your kids to deal with that, or would you rather have clean, polution free engines running the vehicles that pick your kids up from school? Who’s looking out for Who Andy?

  9. Name calling and pointless bickering are the tools of an uniformed and petty mind. You tell me to update my vocbulary to include more than 4 letter words, where as you seem to need mastery of more than 3 letter words. I never knew someone had as much “ass” to throw around as you. Lets look at how many times you have used personal attacks and wild imagery (avoiding the topic) to make your point rather than facing each issue head on.
    I need to calm down and take a breath? — Is anyone else thinking he was right in saying this? I mean, yes, i was feeling kind of light headed as i read most of his posts, what with the uncontrollable laughter.
    #1
    **Anti American Enviro Nazi
    There was a quote from a movie i’ll use to respond to this, kinda fudged though to fit this issue.
    “How can you possibly put up with a man claiming to love America, but clearly can’t stand Americans”,
    Andrew, you are the man refered to here. And the movie is American President.
    #2
    **First of all what kind of thinking is that?
    (sigh) First your image of the jumping off the bridge is so far off topic it needs no mention. But if thats what you feel, i wont hold you back from it. Its your life.
    #3
    **did you know that your boy’s Clinton and Gore didn’t even attempt to get the Kyoto treaty passed
    Clinton/Gore aren’t my boys. For the 3rd time, i didn’t even vote for them. Not once. Can you not read? Or is it just more fun for you to ignor that which has been placed mere inches from your face?
    #4
    **and enviro nazis like yourself
    More name calling … Childish.
    #5
    **and since you say they generate the other 75%, shouldn’t their efforts do more than ours?
    Collectively yes. Thats kind of why COLLECTIVELY the rest of the world has the 75% lumped up on their side of that loppsided scale you put them on.
    My point, if its possible for you to understand, is that when you take the US, and ANY SINGLE other nation, the US has a HELL of a lot more to be resposible for in trems of not only what we put out, but what we need to clean up. HENCE why the US has a lot more to do.
    #6
    **Does that mean they’re visionaries, but also spineless worms without the fortitude to do anything without us doing it first? Is that what you said? LOL
    Avoiding the issue once again that the US is the world leader. Who cares what everyone else is doing (flash back to that bridge you were talking about). LET US DO THE RIGHT THING! LET US BE THE ONE TO SET THE STANDARD. LET US BE THE ONES TO TELL THE REST OF THE WORLD IN 20 YEARS “WE TOLD YOU SO”.
    #7
    **Well first of all we’re not.
    As you so magnificently said… DUH! thats the point of the statement! Instead of investing billions more into new drilling rigs for his Texas buddies, why isn’t Bush investing into making fuel cells more effecient (ie, smaller).
    #8
    ** The cheapest and cleanest power at this point is nuclear, with coal coming in a close second.
    Say what??? Does anyone else remember me asking Andrew to put the crack pipe down?? Since when was NUCLEAR power CLEAN????? Oh, wait, that resivor they want to open up in Nevada (see: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/02/01/yucca.mountain/index.html ) is for sewage from nuclear families.. oops. my mistake.
    #9
    **First of all there is no evidence that what you call “pollution” is bad for the environment
    … sorry momentary light headedness brought on by uncontrolable spirts of laughter. Now, once again (as you so clearly avoided my question about how your kids feel standing next to the 20 or 30 buses every day they come home from school, and have you asked their teachers yet, how they feel about it???)
    How many times has LA, Atlanta, or any other *MAJOR* city had air quality alerts in just the past year alone? Anyone? Anyone at all? I’ve seen in the past year more and more stories on local and national news where doctors are complaining about more and more patients with lung problems becuase of the higer ammounts of pollution in the air. Atlanta and LA specifically lead the pack.
    #10
    **Every time a volcano erupts it spits out more “pollution” (as you put it) than humanity has during its entire existence by several times. Do you think we should try and cover all the volcanoes with rubber maid lids? LOL
    No comment, still laughing.
    #11
    **And what does character have to do with being smart, or taking measures to prevent a possible problem in the future?
    Well, since you seem to need it explained to you, i suggest going here http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/65/c0246500.html and specifically reading entired 1 2 and 4.
    #12
    **When you’re looking up the word ‘character’ be sure to lookup ‘hypocrite’ and ‘short-sighted’ as well.
    Ask and you shall receive. Please make sure you read them.
    http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/53/h0365300.html
    sorry short-sighted wasn’t listed.
    #13
    **For all these reasons 18,000 scientists have petitioned together against the enviro nazi crowd
    Again, more name calling, and avoiding the issue. Nice comment by Mike Wiffen (Also it’s not that hard to find 18,000 people, whatever their profession to sign any petition)
    #14
    **we are not at risk of running out of fuels. We have a fairly decent sized amount of oil left (50 years)
    well considering how many years we started with… i’d say thats not much. and the untapped reserves you mention give us what? Another 150? More pollution in the air (global warming or not)… more money in the pockets of the Oil execs. Lets put that money in more useful places… like the offices of scientists trying to make Fuel cells better! Or some other alternative energy.
    #15
    **it hands power over to the U.N.
    Once again, avoiding the issue… did you even bother to really read, not just skim through, but really read my posts? I went over this, but since you seem to need reminding, let me repost it:
    “How does Kyoto give the UN and “rogue nations” power over us? The same way that any other treaty does. By this I mean that if we break a treaty, or exit without following the terms, then we can have sanctions against us. This is the reason Bush cannot just build his missile definse. He must abide by the stipulations of the agreement or face sanctions from the UN. This is a part of ANY treaty, NOT JUST KYOTO!! So again, you get no points here. The puppet strigs you refer to come into play ONLY if we do not meet the terms of the agreement, or exit it. Korea can not stand up and say “This year you can only produce X% of these gases”. No my friend, my dear mislead Andrew. What it means is that if the US fails to meet the terms of the agreement THEN Korea can stand up and say “you failed to meet this agreement, we suggest you straigten up or we place an 10% higher tax on your exports.” See Andrew, the comments your making about giving power over our nation to others is completely bogus. Its a scare tactic used well by many a politician. Heh, look and what they did with Medicare (even if the program is farked beyond reason.)”
    That pretty much cover it for ya? Any confusion on this issue still Andrew?
    #16
    **Are you an Anti-American Mike? I think you are.
    More name calling. Childish. How old are you Andrew?? Pathetic quite frankly. But let me state this, where i’m not Anti-American, i am most certinly Anti-Establishment. Let us ALWAYS question the reasons and motives of our leadership, lest they lead us blind.
    #17
    **Examining the enviro nazi movement as a whole you’ll find that they do nothing to help the environment, but a lot to take freedom away from americans, empower themselves, harm capitalism, and line their pockets at the same time.
    Once again avoiding the issue, and for the pocket lining comment, i’m mention again, ENRON. hehe
    #18
    **By mentioning Enron you made us all aware of your real intent.
    And that is? Come on Andy, dont be shy, let us all know what i’m thinking. Please. Have you bothered finding out what the ENRON scam is all about? Have you bothered to watch the senate board queston the ENRON execs. Did you watch and see how patheticly Skilling attempted to avoid blame for the company going bankrupt, or the execs of the company giving themselves a 50 million dollar bonus literaly 2 weeks before filing bankruptcy?
    Hardly Andrew. Research your facts and come back when you can play with the big boys. We have a kiddie table all set up for you in the mean time.
    Sorry all, thought a dose of his own medicine with the name calling and all might slap some sense into him, though i doubt it will.
    What ENRON has to do in a discussion about terrorisim and the like is a running policy of our government. Bush, like many presidents before him, instead of supporting international causes, as the international leader the US is- should!- is instead pulling all the tenticals inside… funneling money to his buddies in Texas, forcing America to stand alone. Got news for ya Andy, in this day and age that just dont work. This is a world economy. As i stated before, if Japan goes bankrupt, it WILL drag the rest of the world with it. If England or France, the USA, etc etc go belly up, we take the world with us. Look at how many countries depend on our exports, not for entertainment, but for survival! The wolrd is a virtual spiderweb of trade and commerce that Bush specifically (as HE is the one CURRENTLY in office) is cutting many supporting lines to. Just like hes cutting support lines with the Missile Shield (IE England and Russia along with others).
    #19
    **You keep bringing things like this up because that’s what you’re after.
    Once again avoiding the issue… how are you avoiding the issue this time, by not mentioning specifically what it is you think i’m after. So? What is it Andy? Or is this one of you apparently easy flowing, mindless rantings trying to sway favor your way? Oops Foiled again… Blast those kids in the 60′s van…
    #20 1/3
    **I’m very afraid of your persistence and non-stop efforts to enslave all of us with your socialistic ideals.
    (sigh) Everyone, start laughing at the child screaming for attention.
    #20-2/3
    **Regardless what does it have to do with Bush? … If anything illegal was done at Enron, or GC, those responsible should be properly punished for it. Which means jail time.
    Agreed here, but the whole rant about “my” socialist Buddies i dont quite understand. I don’t know anyone who labels themselves as a socialist, nor do i. Sounds like more name calling here. I firmly believe in the constitution and what it stands for, which is why i gave 4 years of mylife to defind it and those i love. What have you done Andy? … Andy? ANDY! Stop playing with the big red button!
    #20 3/3
    **Capitalism and Corporate America are not the enemy
    hmmm… debateable.. but we have enough on our plate as it is. The Ideals are sound, no question, but those running the show are the ones i’m questioning here. Focus Andy. Focus.
    #21
    **are all problems that would solve themselves
    Umm Andy, all of us in the grown up world can tell you no problem ever solves itself.
    What efforts have i been involved in, Andy, that directly resulted in the Energy crisis in Cal? umm? Where are these spys you hire to keep a watch on me?? Damn! They are AWESOME! You’re really getting your monkeys worth!
    Honestly i didn’t know the situation in Cal until i heard it on the news, which is why i didn’t bring it up. I dont know what lead to it, haven’t heard or seen enough of the details yet, so, no comment. Tell ya what though, lets get the Gov. from out there, whats his name, Gov. Gray or Davis, something like that… DOH! Lets get him on here and see what he has to say to you about why California is having problems. After all, he deals with the buisness and private results of the situation.
    #22
    **But in the end I don’t think you care. I know your movement doesn’t care, and while you might be one of the good-natured few, I don’t think so. You are not about progression, you are about yourself. And that’s what all this really boils down to.
    My… thank you for that insight into myself Andy. I feel reborn now. I can see through clearer eyes… (COUGH!) Sorry guys… had to thorw-up… Andy, you dont know me any more than i know you. But if Name calling and finger pointing at people you dont know… If you truely think that someone with a differing opinion than your own is Anti-American, well then… I guess i am that.
    LOOK AT ME EVERYBODY!! LETS ALL GO BE ANTI-AMERICAN TOGEATHER!!
    Pathetic Andy. Shame on you. Pathetic. Kman, keep that purple Barny suit handy. Looks like he’ll be wearing it after all.
    Everybody sing!! “i love you, you love me….”
    Lets review.. 22 avoided topics and name calling sessions. In just one letter. And once again i’ll bring up, how many kids do you have Andy? Or are you still one yourself? Put the Jello pudding snack pack down a sec and pay attention.
    Ask your neighbors how they feel when they think of the 30 or so buses spewing forth their exhaust and their kids standing right there. Hell, ask the people on here how they feel about it. After 8 years i can still taste the aluminum and other metals that are rich in the exhaust of those engines. And if most schools are like mine was, theres not just one wave of buses to pick the kids up, but 2… perhaps even 3. Do you want your kids to deal with that, or would you rather have clean, polution free engines running the vehicles that pick your kids up from school? Who’s looking out for Who Andy?

  10. As human beings, what we know best is how to kill each other. We have been perfecting it for thousands and thousands of years. It will still go on more thousands and thousands of years (unless we blow the crap out of the planet first).
    War is not surprising, its just an innate facet of being human. There is always going to be someone who doesnt like what you are or what you stand for.
    However I dont like the feeling that what is happening all over this planet of ours is basically one big game of Risk and a small number of players of dicking around with us all for the pleasure of playing it their games.

  11. Mike, that was a helluva post. The key to understanding Andy and others like him is really very simple. Oh, and when I say others, I don’t mean conservatives or liberals, I just mean people who have a narrow spectrum. Fanatacism in any form is never a good thing. Anyway just go on down to Central Park and find the horse drawn carriages. Ignore the carriage and look at the horse, then look at the head of the horse and you’ll see blinders. These blinders are to narrow the vision of the horse so he’s only paying attention to what’s in front of them. So that he doesn’t get spooked. So that he can be controlled.
    Andrew and people like him only see their world. For whatever reasons their brains do not, or cannot process the greater picture. So all the facts and figures that they ever gather only serve to do one thing and that is form the blinders and hey, if he’s comfortable with that, rock on. Plenty of people out there with common sense know better.
    Kman

  12. Once again, I am needing to reply to a few people.
    ANDREW- Thanks for the props, I’m glad we’ve cleared everything up!
    CHRIS- I understand your comment about being young and inexperienced completely. However, I do feel Kman was slighting my intelligence by implying that I am just young and dumb and can be led around by the nose. Also, my mother AND grandmother used to tell me my face would “freeze like that” but, I didn’t believe them. It’s ok though because I got your point. ;-)
    KMAN- You just keep on with your stubborn arguments and short sighted points of view about what I should do to improve myself or knowledge of this country since you don’t know me or what I know about anything. As for the health problems you spoke of, I know plenty of people who have been overseas and have NO illnesses. And, telling me to talk to veterans isn’t really relevant because there are a lot of veterans in my family (blood and church) who have told me their stories so what would be the point in talking to someone I’m not related to so they could tell me about all the things my family has already told me about? There absolutely isn’t one. And those family members, every single one of them are proud of having served their country and wanted to join up again and defend people like you (God knows why!) after what happened September 11th.
    Like I said before, you don’t know me AT ALL, obviously. My test scored DO matter. With my test scores I got the job of Intelligence Analyst in Aviation which means bullets will not be “whizzing past my head” because I’ll be in the air, not on the front lines. Besides the fact that they don’t let women on the front lines.
    And yes, I’d LOVE to take the exam for airport security. I bet I’d do the job a heck of a lot better than they would. They’re all minimum wage workers who obviously do a crap job. Even after 9/11, there were reports ALL over of people bringing on knives and boxknives and hmm…security didn’t catchi it! So yes, if it’s accessible, I’ll take that test!
    One last thing for you Kman. Bravo for the show of maturity when dealing with comments. I don’t see how you saw a threat from Andrew in his post. It said “and they’d like to kick your ass” NOT “I’d like to kick your ass.” You sound like my adolescent brothers who tried to pick fights with everyone who walked passed them!
    ~J~

  13. i will say this:
    before September 11th, 2001, i was your average teenager. i felt invincible. i felt that my government could protect me.
    i thought i was fine.
    *sighs*
    what a difference one day makes.
    now, that invincibile feeling is gone. i know i’ll never go sit on an airplane.
    and “collateral damage”? bull-fucking-shit, man.
    that isn’t collateral damage. that’s homicide, whether justified or not.
    that’s several people, never seeing the sunrise ever again.
    that’s several hundred people, never going to walk again.
    while thousands of people died on that fateful day, i still feel bad for those that died afterwards.
    while some people bitch and moan about certain issues, the point is that people are still dying.
    yes, i’m a pacifist.
    and i’m damn proud to be so.
    before this huge ass mess happened, my life was simple.
    now i have to think about my own mortality.
    Wil, i’m sorry to be going off like this, and i do apologize for getting all weepy and shit, but
    it sucks to feel like your entire world was shattered by one event.
    i mean, think about little kids over in Afghanistan that’ll never see their parents again, because a civilian hospital was hit by a US bomb.
    i’m an american, but i’m not proud of my country’s actions right now.
    a good friend gave me this advice:
    don’t read the news. read behind the news.
    when you do, then bitch and moan and complain some more.
    but some people are still dying and treated like shit.
    don’t treat people less than human. that will be on your hands.

  14. Jamie it’s kind of funny how much it matters to you. Such a long post for what you consider to be my flippant comments. Misreading just about everyone of them to form a comeback including posts not directed at you. Whatever. Hope these kinds of lapses don’t affect you in your new position.
    Anyway, I never proclaimed to know you, but a general idea of where you’re headed isn’t the biggest stretch of the imagination anyone’s ever had to make.
    Good for you that your test scores got you the coveted job of Intelligence Analyst in Aviation. It still does not signify any kind of broad intelligence, it signifies your so called intelligence in that field. Have fun with it. Apparently the analyzation and detection of sarcasm is beyond your capacity. Figures. It is still my opinion that you haven’t lived enough to know better so deal with it. (I still don’t know you but my thinking you’re an idiot sure does seem to bug you)
    Flame away, these babies are fireproof.
    Kman

  15. Kman,
    It wasn’t a come back to the post that wasn’t to me. I was just telling you how mature you seem to be. And yes, it does bug me that you think I am an idiot because you have no right to make such judgements because you don’t know me.
    ~J~

  16. Ok folks, this page is getting way out of hand, almost half a meg now. Got a few people to reply to, but I’m sick of downloading this page and typing into a tiny little box on a huge monitor.
    Don’t worry you’ll all get replies, but unlike some of you I have other responsibilites that must take priority.
    KMAN, I told you via email that you weren’t going to get a reply until you said something intelligent. Keep trying with the insults though (so much for education), maybe you’ll come up with one clever enough to make me laugh. You also said something to Jamie to the effect of “funny how much this matters to you”. I know it’s hard, but try not to think about me while you’re sleeping, ok?

  17. Right on Wil. War is stupid. Always. War never ever works. I believe in self defense and just trials, even special ops infiltration, but not killing people.
    War is almost always fought for religious or imperialistic reasons. We may say that we started this war to end terrorism and that *may* be true. But this war should have ended months ago. Terrorism will not end through violence. It will only grow larger, I am afraid.
    If we continue this war and start attacking other countries I am very fearful for the future of our planet. Our (not my) national leader is not helping our situation with his inflammatory comments.
    Every other person on this planet is your brother or sister. Even if you disagree with them.

  18. Right on Wil. War is stupid. Always. War never ever works. I believe in self defense and just trials, even special ops infiltration, but not killing people.
    War is almost always fought for religious or imperialistic reasons. We may say that we started this war to end terrorism and that *may* be true. But this war should have ended months ago. Terrorism will not end through violence. It will only grow larger, I am afraid.
    If we continue this war and start attacking other countries I am very fearful for the future of our planet. Our (not my) national leader is not helping our situation with his inflammatory comments.
    Every other person on this planet is your brother or sister. Even if you disagree with them.

  19. Right on Wil. War is stupid. Always. War never ever works. I believe in self defense and just trials, even special ops infiltration, but not killing people.
    War is almost always fought for religious or imperialistic reasons. We may say that we started this war to end terrorism and that *may* be true. But this war should have ended months ago. Terrorism will not end through violence. It will only grow larger, I am afraid.
    If we continue this war and start attacking other countries I am very fearful for the future of our planet. Our (not my) national leader is not helping our situation with his inflammatory comments.
    Every other person on this planet is your brother or sister. Even if you disagree with them.

  20. Jamie truth be told in my earlier post I was making a generalization. It’s not to say everyone is an absolute idiot that joins the military. Seriously, the military needs people who will follow orders and the fact is someone who is 18 or so is far more impressionable than someone who’s 35. It’s not to say anything about courage or honor. There’s a reason basic training goes the way it does. Anyway, that’s it.
    Andrew, I sent you an e mail saying that the next e mail that arrives from you should tell ME A TIME AND DATE YOU’LL BE OUT HERE and in true convenient fashion you turned it around and said I’d be telling you when I’d be out to Texas in my next e mail. Don’t make me post my last e mail to you which didn’t have any insult whatsoever but said, “nice try”. I said it before and I’ll say it again. You will hurl insults from behind that screen but you’ll never stand toe to toe with me and say shit. I don’t care who you know or who you’re related to that fought wherever. Right now, we’re discussing YOU and YOU wouldn’t meet me in broad daylight on the 50 yard line of the Superbowl if it meant you had to do it alone. There’s nothing for me to get upset about nor am I emotional about it. I’ve seen your type before and it’s just pathetic. So you keep it up with what you consider to be slyness.
    Rereading some of your posts and insults, especially the continual homosexuality references it’s clear to me that what matters to you most or what bothers you a great deal, is that you haven’t come to terms with yourself. I have a gay cousin who went down much the same road your going down now. The repeated insults that only referenced ‘faggots, and whatnot’ man, that is you. Doh! Anyway man, grab a jacket and come on out of the closet. Nothing wrong with being gay, but there is something wrong with not being true to yourself.
    Kman

  21. yuuuuuuuuuuup.
    Speaking of wars, anyone see that Bush is pushing even MORE money into the “war on drugs”?
    He also babbled on about how everytime someone buys drugs they are funding terrorists….
    I got an idea….
    Maybe instead of trying to fight a war that obviously cannot be won, DO SOMETHING else about it.
    Such as the legalization of drugs. The government would then wipe out the black market money going to terrorists, and could then spend the money made on (and saved) on issues that we should have resolved by now (better education, nationwide health insurance etc…).
    It works just fine in Amsterdam….
    I mean c’mon…people are not going to stop doing drugs.
    It’s like starting a war against breathing.
    Can I get an amen?!

  22. Right on Wil. War is stupid. Always. War never ever works. I believe in self defense and just trials, even special ops infiltration, but not killing people.
    War is almost always fought for religious or imperialistic reasons. We may say that we started this war to end terrorism and that *may* be true. But this war should have ended months ago. Terrorism will not end through violence. It will only grow larger, I am afraid.
    If we continue this war and start attacking other countries I am very fearful for the future of our planet. Our (not my) national leader is not helping our situation with his inflammatory comments.
    Every other person on this planet is your brother or sister. Even if you disagree with them.

  23. Right on Wil. War is stupid. Always. War never ever works. I believe in self defense and just trials, even special ops infiltration, but not killing people.
    War is almost always fought for religious or imperialistic reasons. We may say that we started this war to end terrorism and that *may* be true. But this war should have ended months ago. Terrorism will not end through violence. It will only grow larger, I am afraid.
    If we continue this war and start attacking other countries I am very fearful for the future of our planet. Our (not my) national leader is not helping our situation with his inflammatory comments.
    Every other person on this planet is your brother or sister. Even if you disagree with them.

  24. Right on Wil. War is stupid. Always. War never ever works. I believe in self defense and just trials, even special ops infiltration, but not killing people.
    War is almost always fought for religious or imperialistic reasons. We may say that we started this war to end terrorism and that *may* be true. But this war should have ended months ago. Terrorism will not end through violence. It will only grow larger, I am afraid.
    If we continue this war and start attacking other countries I am very fearful for the future of our planet. Our (not my) national leader is not helping our situation with his inflammatory comments.
    Every other person on this planet is your brother or sister. Even if you disagree with them.

  25. Nicely said, Wil. Apparently only a tiny minority sees the so-called “War on Terrorism” as the empire-building terrorist atrocity that it is, though it’s pretty obvious when the facts are disclosed. Anyone in your position, who has an audience thanks to your line of work, does a real public service by encouraging others to question the official version (offal version?). The mainstream media does nothing but mindlessly regurgitate Pentagon press releases.
    (Maybe somebody ought to remix the Beatle song – Back in the USSA….)
    All the best.

  26. Drew,
    I’d hardly call this a war, anyhow. But that is a point that is noted.
    “Let me clarify just a few other things, too: If you’re a serviceman or woman, I don’t have a problem with you, or the choice you’ve made to defend our country. It seems that every time I question the morality of a war, or the motives of our leadership, I get flooded with emails and comments from insulted members of the armed forces, and I’d like to head that off, if it’s at all possible. The same way that I don’t want to be blamed for a lousy episode of TNG, I don’t blame you for a war that I don’t agree with. I know, a thin comparison, but I think you get my point.”
    Hey, Services folk. Get off your fucking pots. He can voice any perspective he likes. Grow a brain, and yes this is a flame. You all seem to gloat about how much of saviour each and everyone of you are. Yet you seem to contradict the very same thing YOU vow to uphold. If assholes like you are the very people that “protect” my interests, then I’d rather not have you at all. I’ll do my own dying. Thanks!

  27. Wonderful post, Will. I will return to read again. You echoed many of my own feelings. I worry about those children now orfaned, and the mothers awaiting medical care.
    I personally look forward to someday being able to freely travel to Afghanistan to see the people, and hopefully repay them by being a “good tourist” and student of their culture.

  28. Novel,
    Thats the only word I can come up with for any kind of justification for killing. Anyone that thinks the afghanistan invasion had something to do with Bin Laden obviously knows very little about US motives. Think “pipeline”. GW’s little boys had a meeting with the taliban kiddies to discuss putting an oil pipeline through their territory just a few short months before 9-11 in which they told GW to stuff said pipeline up his ass. GW obviously didnt take kindly to being told no,… most children dont, after all.
    The planned invasion of Iraq also has nothing to do with any potential threat posed by El Saddamisimo,… nope, not even a little,… ask yourself,… do ya think for one second that once the freakshow you have for a president gets his hands on the 3rd largest oil fields in the world hes gonna give em up? Think again. Its all about profit, power, and control over a vital resource. Always was, always will be.
    Your country is nothing short of the fourth Reich. Deal with it quick, or someone like China, Russia, or perhaps both will do it for you.
    Or, ignore me, and every other hint you can, get reactionary, dont try to figure it out for yourself and kiss your yankee asses (and likely half the planet with ya) goodbye. All for the sake of designer sneakers.
    damn you people suck.
    TBJ

  29. (before you start commenting on my ignorance of spelling and grammar usage…. because that’s all you people do when someone disagrees with your bleeding heart ways….I purposely did not use caps in the words of allah, islam, muslim and etc…simply another way I can show my disrespect for these nasty people, er, I mean creatures)
    Ok people……here’s the problem. This county is not ACTING. We are doing absolutely NOTHING to prevent this. There has been no recourse to the actions of these rag head wearing camel jockeys.
    As long as they can continue to blow up whatever they want, whenever they want, THEY WILL! Because that is their mind set. They can not think for themselves…..they’re ignorant, ugly, evil, sub-human, creatures. And yeah, the more I think about it, I mean ALL of them.
    Yeah I hate….and so what. They do to. All they understand is violence. Treat like with like. An eye for an eye.
    Ohhhhhhhhh Big Bad America is going to slap us on the wrists, but that’s all, so lets do it more and more, says ‘Mohammadajasamairahadahja.” Why shouldn’t he think like that? He and all his nasty friends know it’s the plain, simple, truth.
    Until this country grows a backbone and our freaking “afraid to offend anyone who isn’t white” leaders don’t get off their fat asses and do something, this country and planet are going to crumble into nothing. (which may be the best thing, actually)
    This country, along with all the other western civilized nations, will look like most of the ones in the middle east now. Burned out, shot up and people living in caves….just wait.
    I have but one solution. BLOW THEM ALL UP. KILL THEM ALL NOW. I don’t care what you bleeding heart, open minded, liberal assholes think about my words…I know you’re all going to get pissy and mad about me and my warmongering…..but I DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU. You people are one of the main reasons that this all continues on.
    These pieces of shit would blow your freaking head off along with your newborn babies, your mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters, as fast as they could, if you gave them a chance. Trust me on this. They would kill your entire family in the street, piss on their dead bodies and dance in the flow of their blood. All in the name of allah and islam…..oh you bet your sweet, stupid ass they would, my brother……. Yes, they WOULD. You know it’s true, but you don’t want to, so you DENY it. WAKE UP!
    As for innocent…..well, let’s talk about innocent. They’ve turned that table on innocent. There IS NO INNOCENT in this war against terror they conduct. They would kill us all if they could/can. Therefore in my mind, there is no innocent of their kind either. NONE. They are all targets. muslim, islamic, middle eastern, whatever.
    If they blow up a club in Bali, we drop a nuclear device on a very large city of hundreds of thousands……they blow up an oil tanker in the gulf, we drop another nuclear device on another city of bigger size…any one of choice. Turn it into a big, shiny, glass parking lot. ANY DAMN ONE. For every bomb they detonate we take out another quarter of their population….innocent, muslim, or NOT, until there is absolutely nothing left.
    If you kill enough of them, they will MAYBE, MAYBE, see that this is no longer a game, and they might consider putting and end to all this death and destruction, THAT THEY STARTED, in the name of “allah”.
    But it is most likely that there would still be a few walking around out there who would just keep going because it’s all they know, because they’re ignorant camel fuckers. More reason to just get rid of them all now.
    Which leads to my next step. Just kill them all and let God clean up the mess.
    Get the freaking exchange students and ANY other person(s) of mid-eastern descent, regardless of age, gender, creed, or what they believe, and SEND THEM PACKING. Maybe even anyone involved in this fanatical religion of islam (no I did not capitalize that for a reason) who lives in this country, no matter who they may be. White, black, whatever. It has no place in this country. Get it and them out, NOW!
    Lock up the borders, turn off the lights and let it be known, this country will not tolerate this crap any more and if they start up again, blow up another country or two, just as a reminder. It sure as hell stopped Japan didn’t it? Where is Harry S Truman when we need him? A great man. Too bad we don’t have more leaders like him in this day and age.
    Yeah, call me an ignorant, moronic, small minded person…..whatever you want. I could care less about what you have to say about me and how stupid my views are. Thing is, you don’t know.
    You have no idea.
    When it’s in your backyard and your neighborhood is burning and you’re running for your life…you might think, “maybe we should have been a little more harsh in our actions”, but I tend do doubt it…you people would probably just give them the rest of your belongings and ask them to forgive you for the horrid things your country has done to them…..yeah, that’s about right.
    But of course, we simply can’t offend anyone or hurt their feelings….that would be wrong.
    About as wrong as the flight attendant that mahammad grabbed from behind and slit her throat on one of the planes from 911. As she bled to death and countless others watched and could do nothing.
    About as wrong as the man who had to decide to either jump 110 floors to his death or burn alive….as he thought about his family and loved ones while his body reached speeds of 200 miles per hour falling from his place of work…..until you’ve had to experience it, you won’t change your mind. But when it happens to YOU, you’re going to wish you had thought different. It’ll be too late then though, won’t it?
    About as wrong as all the people who were blown up as they danced the night away in a nightclub on vacation.
    About as wrong as all those innocents who are going to die when these pieces of human waste get the chance to commit another large scale attack. And they will.
    Innocents….innocents who were killed by falling bombs, friendly fire..etc. STOP WITH THE PITY FOR THOSE PEOPLE.
    You need to start feeling pity and sorrow for the people of your OWN COUNTRY! Too damn much concern for those who don’t matter to us, me, and you, yes, you. And if you feel so much for them, then pack your bags and go live with them. We’d be better off without you anyway!
    Just remember, most of these people don’t want our help, and want us to leave them alone.
    Well, if we are so adept at hearing their cries, then why the hell don’t we listen to THAT?!!!!! LEAVE THEM ALONE AND LET THEM DEAL WITH THEIR OWN SLIME WHO MURDER AND KILL. They’ve fought these damn religious wars for thousands of years over there and it is best we let them just keep on. Stay out of their business. I’ll go back to horse and buggy if it means leaving them where they are and staying out of it. Screw oil…we can make do on our own.
    The founders of this country are turning over in their graves…..if they weren’t already dead, they would take a gun and turn it on themselves at what they were seeing.
    Just hand them the keys, open the doors and let them come on in and take over……that’s what you all want isn’t it? Yeah, give em what they want and pat them on the back. And while you’re doing it, their brother, hamjabahah, hiding in the bushes, blows your brains out because you’re an AMERICAN.
    It’s time to wake up people. Lets grow some cajones and do something about this, NOW.
    Thanks Bill Clinton, you piece of shit.

  30. And to “the baby jesus”
    Exactly which surburban white neighborhood do you sit, with your thousand dollar computer talking about what a lame group the US and it’s people are? Who are you kidding? You know you’re right here in the middle of it with the rest of us, playing your MP3s, drinking your Dew and looking at porn….driving your SUV to your dotcom job….get off the act you moron. Have you ever done anything to help those less fortunate than you? Yeah, I’m sure you’re just a regular saint arentcha?
    My friend, when half the planet does go, I bet you’re gonna be taken with it, I CAN ONLY HOPE.
    You freak.

  31. LOL
    And for the next issue of “Suicidial Goon”, we have Donald Rumsfield, and John Ashcroft playing themselves in an episode entitled “women and children first”.
    Dontcha love irony?

  32. Wow, this is an interesting site and discussion board you got going here, and i guess my view on all this is much common to that of yours… but more than anything, i think it boils down to the fact that we really all are human and are all equal… and there is no “others.” Check out my website sometime, i’m very fond of being “Open-minded”
    great job!

  33. It is amazing that people all over the world hate each other and kill each other in the name of their god or their government and somehow the US is blamed for it. The US is hated and envied for our sucess in running a free capitalist society. Those without education or ability to think oftentimes believe that the best thing to do is to give in to those that oppose us. They say we should be more sympathetic to their feelings. Clearly these people are nieve and do not understand the nature of man. There are two things that drive human emotion: Money and Power. If you follow one, you will find the other. Though the US is not a perfect place (go to California and see) we at least have the methods in place to correct our leaders mistakes by replacing them with individuals who better reflect our views. Try to do that in China, or Somalia, or Libya, or Egypt, or Venesuela, or (insert country here). You get my point by now. So yes, war is a terrible thing and civilians die in war. (WWII casualties were almost 1/2 civilian) Fortunately I know that we will do everything that we can do to try and prevent deaths of “innocents”. There is not another country on earth now or in history that can claim that. Those of you who attack and protest the US really do not appreciate what we are about and you only believe the falsehoods that are spread by groups that want to bring down the US. I encourage you to think for yourself. Question what you are being told, both in the news and by these anti- whatever groups. Remember above all else, people want money and power, including these anti war groups. The truth is out there, it is elusive but there. You have to use your head to find it.

Comments are closed.