Over at Joystiq, Griffin McElroy wrote about Keith David’s growing celebrity in video games. He’s probably best known for playing the Arbiter in Halo 2 and Halo 3, but he’s also in Mass Effect and a bunch of other extremely popular games.
McElroy takes this condescending, dismissive tone toward Keith David’s career, calling him a "B-List" actor, and implying that, because he hadn’t worked that often on camera recently, he resorted to voices in video games, where — hey, backhanded compliment — he’s doing surprisingly well for himself!
"These kinds of jobs are quickly gaining popularity in Hollywood, says
Reuters, as voice work provides a much steadier paycheck than that of
on-screen roles. We see it as a win-win situation — down on their luck
actors with distinct voices can find a nice amount of celebrity in the
gaming realm…"
Wow. This is so profoundly misinformed, and based on such confirmation bias, it’s too stupid to be offensive. I’ve been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time doing voice work, both for video games and for animation, and it is not easy. "Down on their luck actors" don’t get to just walk into a studio and
wave around their list of long-forgotten on-camera achievements in
exchange for a job. You can only get cast in these jobs — and keep
them — if you have the skills and talent to earn them. It’s an incredibly closed community where the gates are jealously guarded by people who work very, very hard to get inside, and once you’re there, you have to constantly work your ass off to stay there, because there are so many people working just as hard to take your place.
Here’s a shocking truth: a lot of so-called "A-list" celebrities don’t have what it takes to succeed in voice acting, because it’s an entirely different set of skills, and an entirely different work ethic. It’s hard, and it’s competitive, and it’s not someplace "down on their luck actors with distinct voices" go when they can’t go anywhere else. To imply otherwise is an insult to the actors whose voices bring these characters to life. I find that truly offensive.
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B-List? The man has a Tony Award!
Damn straight Wil. Guys like Maurice LaMarche, Billy West, Frank Welker, and Rob Paulson are immensely more talented than most of todays big name actors.
You are certainly right. Here in Chicago, the voice-talent market is incredibly tough to crack, but you meet those actors who, every now and then, can buy a house from getting one commercial VO gig or stay solvent from video game work. Then they can go back and do the work (stage or otherwise) that they find most satisfying. So would McElroy have the same attitude about a writer who blogs or a videographer who puts materials on the web instead of on TV? Work is work.
Keith David is a damn fine actor…very intense, probably type-cast a bit more than he’d like, but excellent still. Who else could have pulled off, “How did you get the bean on TOP of the frank???”
Wil–someday you should think about doing a behind the scenes on your work with Legion. I’ve always been interested in what it takes to do that work, find the right voice for the character and so on.
I love voice acting, and I’ve always wanted to do it, secretly. I’ve never had the talent or anything else to ever get started with it though. I’ve always been a fan of your voice work on the Teen Titans though, and in true geek fashion whenever Aqualad said something I was all like “Woo! I read that guy’s blog!”
Despite not knowing how it really works on the inside, I’ve never felt like voice acting was an “alternative job for actors down on their luck”, so I was glad to see your take on it. I’ve always had a lot of respect for people who do it well, and it always seemed obvious to me how difficult it is to do it well.
Just another thought…this whole “clique-ish” attitude that some actors seem to take is really ridiculous. Movie actors who won’t do television and such. Speaking from a fan’s perspective, I don’t view a film actor as someone who has done much better than someone who has been a life-long television or stage actor. I appreciate talent and love of the craft regardless of where I see it. Case-in-point, Jerry Orbach. He didn’t spend a tremendous amount of time on film projects, but was best known for his work on Law & Order and broadway. I personally consider him one of the finest actors I’ve ever seen, and his body of work speaks for itself.
I did voice-over work for 2 years on and off. I was always a goofy kid with many voices (only child) and I made a goal one day to be on the radio within a year.
I did indeed accomplish that goal by meeting the right people and making a demo tape.
Turns out there is decent money in it… but it’s not steady work AT ALL and I realized I’m not the type of person who can’t count on $XXX per month even if it means talking for a living.
Kinda stupid I know… and my family says I’m insane for not continuing.
Also? Yea I heard about the union voice actors being the gatekeepers and how hard it was to bust into a union town and I just didn’t want the hassle.
Seems like perhaps the author of that article struck a nerve?
As someone who’s not involved in either acting or voice acting industries, this article didn’t strike me as particularly condescending or mean-spirited. The author seems to suggest that some screen actors who are no longer acting as much as they once did have applied their talents to voice acting for games. The tone of the article, to a reader who is not a part of the industry, is simply not offensive. It doesn’t suggest that the voice actors lack talent – in fact quite the contrary, using phrases such as “everyone’s favorite” and “of Top Gun and Starship Troopers fame” show appreciation for the actors’ accomplishments.
As for the “down on their luck actors” comment, I don’t see anywhere in that statement that implicates a lack of talent, only a lack of available acting jobs for those actors.
Am I missing something? Keith David is one hell of a hard working actor, and has appeared in an awful lot of films. I count 13 for 2008 releases alone. To me, that’s a steadily working actor.
Thank you, Wil! Voice actors get so little recognition these days it’s almost laughable. And Keith David is one of the best out there. He can take a role, and the moment he speaks you’ll know that it’s him, but the moment he speaks again, you’ll be into the character, whomever it is.
I first recall hearing him in Disney’s Gargoyles, which was an excellent cartoon, particularly considering that it was made by Disney. (Now I think about it, Wil, how come you never provided a voice for that show? Or did you? It seems like every other major Trek actor did a cameo there somewhere.)
Also? Yea I heard about the union voice actors being the gatekeepers and how hard it was to bust into a union town and I just didn’t want the hassle.
I didn’t mean to imply that the union actors are trying to keep anyone out, because that’s not the case.
It’s just an incredibly competitive field, and the people who make hiring decisions prefer to work with people they already know can handle the unique challenges posed by voice acting, which creates a sort of walled city.
Seems like perhaps the author of that article struck a nerve?
Damn right he did. I’ve been both things (down on my luck actor and voice actor) and the implication that voice work is second-tier work is profoundly insulting and offensive to me on both counts.
a lot of so-called “A-list” celebrities don’t have what it takes to succeed in voice acting
An example, for those who don’t believe: There was a time when Richard Dean Anderson was a huge name; everyone loved him in MacGyver. And then we all loved him again in Stargate SG1.
Let’s just say Fallout, which was a spectacular game in just about every respect, wasn’t exactly his best performance…
I’ve always had a fetish for cartoon voices. Paul Frees, June Foray, Daws Butler, Don Messick – these are my heroes. Currently am in love with the voice of Jonny Test! Do you know or have you worked with Cameron Clarke? Another hero for many reasons. Would love to hear more about your own voice work, Wil. Love you on Legion, didn’t know you did Teen Titans, will have to check it out!
I prefer to work with actors who do voice work, even if just as an occasional sideline. They know how to speak and enunciate. The other ones? Doesn’t seem to be a priority.
To me, Keith David will forever be the voice of Goliath from “Gargoyles.” A truly great cartoon and his voice performance went so far as to making that character compelling and yes, sexy. He was more famous to me as a voice actor than he ever was as a character actor.
The other night I read a mental_floss interview with Laraine Newman (of SNL/Coneheads fame) and she talked a little about voice acting–echoing what you say here and have said before. Besides it being fun as an actor when you’re in the studio, it’s hard work and tough to get into the club.
“I knew I could do dialects and a lot of things with my voice. So I got a voiceover agent and auditioned for two years before I got any work.
[…]
DI: What advice would you give to someone looking to break into animation voice over?
LN: Well they should start out with the ability to do dialects, characters, and play different ages. If you have those three things, I’d recommend taking a class to learn how to act with your voice, which is an entirely different skill.”
The link: http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/11883
A pal of mine moved from film/TV to voice acting, and has never looked back. He works a couple of sessions a week, no night shoots, no makeup chair, and he gets to raise his own kids (who think it’s way cool to have toys with Dad’s voice).
Keith David is my hero! Of course, because he was the voice of Goliath on Gargoyles. I’ve professed my love for this show many times because of the Trek stars who did voice work. Jonathan, Marina, Michael, and Brent were on. Wil would have topped it off for me! But, Keith David MADE that show. No one else’s voice would have worked for that character.
The people who do this work are not “down on their luck.” The good ones are in demand!
Seems to me you have to be very versatile and very consistent to be a good voice actor…It’s not about doing a strange voice at a party…It’s about turning your voice into a character…and being able to match that voice scene for scene whenever you are called upon…I have done voice acting in local radio commercials…and i have found that it’s not easy to be the same character with the same voice quality take after take…I have the utmost respect for those who have chosen voice acting as a career.
Ah, but, Wil, how do you really feel?
I agree 100%. Sitting in at last year’s Anime Expo panel for voice acting was a revelation, especially when they let the unwashed masses (no offense, masses, for I am one of you) get up in front of a mic.
I’ve only done a bit o’ voice acting (I was the Goblin Ballonists in Warcraft II), with something like 9 total lines. It still took almost 4 hours to get it right. Of course, I think that the guy recording me wanted a particular harshness in my voice 🙂
I saw the Simpson actors do some of their characters live–I didn’t think it was so difficult before but seeing them onstage–wow!
Patrick Stewart’s voice was a wonderful addition to the voice work in Bethesda Softworks’ The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. I hardly think anyone would call him a “down on his luck actor”.
Hear, hear, Wil.
I’ve interviewed a number of voice actors over on my Robotech podcast (http://www.terrania.us/liberty), including Chase Masterson from DS9. They’ve had a lot of stuff to say about voice acting, and it really does require a lot of craft.
What you just posted is why I have a lot of respect for the good American voice actors (because I find there to be so few) not to mention seiyuu as a whole. They do great work and I know I’m appreciative of it.
Hokay… as one of those people who hires voice actors, AND as one who does the occasional VO job myself as well, I think the original author simply doesn’t have a reality clue about what it takes to do voice acting. So, he has showed his ignorance. That ignorance can be cured, if he cares to take a look at the very talented people out there who do voice acting.
I’ve had the luck to be able to cast people like Mr. Stewart in projects, as well as other screen actors; as well as those voice-overs who don’t do screen work but specialize in voice-acting alone.
It has been my experience that some screen actors are NOT the best voice actors — it’s not their gig nor their specialty. The qualities that are most preferred are versatility and patience, along with the talent to act.
Wil has every right to be insulted by this unknowledgeable “review” and commentary. The reviewer simply slammed people based on some sort of misperception.
As an actor for stage, screen and voice over. I have only one thing to say to this person.
Those that cannot do… Critique.
Never judge without being in another persons shoes.
Wow, that comment is just ignorant. I can’t believe someone would say that! I’m a much bigger fan of my favorite voice actors than I am of most on-screen actors…
For a supposedly down on his luck actor, he seems to book a LOT of work. Did the jackass writer bother to look at the IMDB listing he linked to?
I LOVE when a documentary picks a great voice talent. There are some pretty mediocre ones, like the guy who narrates the Discovery Channels rip off show Smash Lab. The people on the show have no personality and neither does the narrator. Contrast to Mythbusters where the people are interesting and the narrator is pretty entertaining.
Video games used to have (and sometimes still have) laughably bad performances. It’s a pleasure when you get one that is well cast because it keeps you in the moment and in the media. When I watch animation or play a game, I want to be immersed in the story. Bad actors lack that talent.
As someone who grew up IDOLIZING Mel Blanc (RIP), I personally have a greater respect for actors who have the ability to do Voice work… IMO, this critic is a moron in need of a radical rectal cranialectomy, and he can go F*** himself.
BTW, you sir, need to stop reading my mind… I was just reading your IMDB listings the other day, amazed at how much VG work you’ve done recently… KUDOS to you!
PS- Your coolness factor jumped up by a factor of ten when I read that you were in NIMH…
First – Thank you for being you Wil…
Second – Thank Everyone for all the Comments I have read in the last 5 months of reading here. It is good to see good people still exist.
Third – Voice Actors have to do with their voices when over 80% of all communication is via Body Language. They rock and work hard for what they do.
Fourth – Most “A-list” Actors, Aren’t. ( as in they can not act – see movie called Troy and you can see the difference between actors and a-list…)
Sorry for the rant, but you all make my day a little better everytime I read you responses and it gives me hope for the future. ( especially if Wil writes more stuff – say TV/Movies/ Future Interweb stuff – whatever the future brings up.)
My the Geek in all of us leap for Joy!
– side note – Games sell more than movies these days by several billion US$ don’t they?
There is a big difference between being popular and being recognized.
So called A-listers (read: bankable on screen stars) as so called because they are sold to the public as such by faceless studio execs in order to legitimize the budget (read: fees) they have to pay in order to secure said A-Lister.
A recognizable star is what a GQ writer said some years ago about Phillip Seymour Hoffman. The writer called hin the “hardest working MOE in the business”. A MOE is an actor who makes “the most of the moment”.
Keith David is the video game MOE.
I’ll place a bet of shiny gold rocks that gamers could instantly recognize Kieth David’s voice. They might not know his name but they sure know the character(s) he voices.
David’s voice credits are the biggest character names in video games – he *is* an A-Lister. People spend a couple of hours with a character on the big screen, but sometimes *hundreds* of hours with them in video games.
Voice acting is a very legitimate art-form and as you rightly said, not everyone can do it, and very few A-listers can make the transition (only Morgan Freeman springs to mind, and his voice is lent mostly as a narrator, not a character) between the two worlds.
I think voice actors are underrated and undervalued in a world where celebrity is measured in tabloid column inches. I think voice actors have to be better in their craft, because they have to be a storyteller in the oral tradition.
I think you, Wil, are one of those few who can do it.
Cheers.
I just get tired of the attitude in our culture that if you are not one of the top 20 actors/bands/artists/writers/etc in the country, that you are just a hasbeen or a wannabe.
I feel bad for McElroy’s ignorance (or wilful denial of truth), but then it’s as the Late Isaac Asmiov said:
Those who can, do; those who can’t, criticize.
^_^
Two words, baby: Peter Cullen.
You know what I imagine to be one of the tougher aspects of voice-over acting? Being in a booth, having to react, but not having anyone else to bounce that reaction off of, and STILL making it sound hella good. I’ve got nothing but respect for voice-over actors.
I completely understand your resentment and I think you exercised admirable restraint in your response. All of us have visceral responses when we see someone being ignorantly dismissive of a career path we’ve chosen. We don’t choose to do what we do because we’re settling. We choose to do things that we’re good at. Things that make us want to get out of bed in the morning. And, yes, things that challenge us.
My job is behind the scenes and I don’t expect accolades or even necessarily to have my work noticed by the general viewing public. I don’t even get bent out of shape when the director or producers neglect to give me my pat on the back.
That said, I can get a royal hair across my ass when someone either dismisses or takes credit for my work.
OMG. I want to challenge that guy to a couple of cartoon shows and play identify the actor. How many times will you identify everybody Jeff Bennet plays in Gargoyles or Rob Paulsen in Animaniacs?
And Keith David was the only reason I watched all of Armageddon. I forced myself to watch it to see if he would talk again. And then DAMNIT! he didn’t have any more lines! GRRR!
Laugh that idiot all the way to the bank, Keith!
C’mon if memory serves one of the greatest voice actors upset the entire country – Orson Welles. David Tennant, Doctor Who, says that voice acting is far more difficult, and I would never classify him as an actor down on his luck – he’s playing Hamlet this summer. Why the hell don’t these people learn a little entertainment history before they shoot off their mouths.
Joystiq is the Wal-Mart of gaming blogs. Pure greedy evil. I could go on and on as to why (they steal content, they have crap writers etc. etc.) but I have more important things to do, like read Destructoid.
Yeah! I really loved Robert Guillaume’s voice work on Half-Life 2 and didn’t realize until I finished the game and saw the credits that he was the same guy I loved to watch on Soap and Benson….
Also, don’t forget Portal 😉
Ha! I just realized that the GLaDOS (Portal) == Overwatch (HL2)! Awesome.
-bill
Billy West did a great interview at TV Squad (http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/06/15/billy-west-the-tv-squad-interview/)
where he talks about this. It’s toward the end, but his point is that most actors, especially actors who primarily do stuff for the screen, don’t really know how to put an entire character just into the voice. As a result, many of the CGI cartoons that have those big screen names tend to create characters that are modeled (from both a physical and personality standpoint) on the actors that they hope to land to do the voice.
I’ve been thinking about switching careers & going into voice-over work. Not acting so much as corporate stuff – like on-hold messages or training videos, etc.. Is that the same market? Is it as difficult as the voice acting work?
If it’s not an imposition, I would appreciate suggestions/pointers.
Thanks!
-Katy
I have several friends who’ve done voice work with direction like, “Could you sound taller?” or “Could you sound more… tan?” It’s a tough, challenging industry and those who are successful at it deserve their kudos.
One thing I’ve found particularly irritating in recent years is the increase in “big name” actors doing the voices for animated movies or television shows. An actor who is handsome / pretty and charismatic on screen can display very little personality when depending on voice alone. I’ve often thought as I listened, “That was the best take you had?”
Thanks for speaking up on this one, Wil.
Tough line of work, indeed. People don’t understand how difficult it is to try to explain what the voice is that they’re looking for, yet alone trying to get talent to meet that need.
I completely agree with you Wil. How many times have us gamers complained that a game we’ve played was poorly voice-acted…
Having a game that has been awesomely voice-act makes the entire gaming experience that much better. To say that voice-actors are b-listers is a farce! A lot of huge hot actors are voice acting all the time..
Keifer Sutherland, Lucy Lawless, Michael Rosenbaum, Allison Mack, Tom Hanks, James Earl Jones .. all these HUGE names are names on a voice-acting credit somewhere.. to suggest that voice acting is anything substandard is bullshit…
And from what I’ve read from other actors doing voice acting, it’s sounds like they have a blast doing it… Sounds like a good gig to me!!
I have the utmost respect for good voiceover artists (and the companies that employ them), but you have to admit that VO work in the gaming industry didn’t really demand respect (on the whole) until very recently. Some games are still voiced by interns and brother-in-laws. It’s easy for lazy researchers to mistakenly assume they understand the industry.
Oooh, that got my blood boiling!
I got my early start in the industry doing voice work for radio and television, followed in later years by movies, video games and the Internet. You’re right, Wil, it takes a whole different set of skills to execute this kind of specialized vocal performance, and in order to stay at the top of my game (I’m one the best VO actresses in North America) I have to do 2 hours of daily vocal exercises, refrain from drinking alcohol, pop, steaming hot or ice cold drinks, stay away from smokers and smokey night clubs, hot & spicy foods, and I have to talk in a low, even voice when chatting with friends and associates in order to avoid straining or damaging my vocal cords, which would, ultimately, affect my performance level.
I’m a HUGE fan of Keith David, going back to Goliath and Spawn, and it really burns my bottom to see him and his rather impressive VO career so casually dismissed, as if any 16 year old drama class student could do this. Hardly!
KJC
http://showbizprgirl.blogspot.com/
Perfect example, Kingdom Hearts II. Haley Joel Osment performs beautifully (he really is a talented kid) yet Mena Suvari’s blissfully infrequent lines made me want to tear my ears off. It’s been a while since I’ve seen her in anything, but I don’t remember her being so dispassionate and vapid on screen. It was a good learning experience on how talent in one medium doesn’t always transfer to another.
Baby steps, though. VO work is finally beginning to break that “ligitimacy barrier” with today’s moving pictures culture. I bet if radio acting had never fallen out of popularity…
P.S. Every time I hear Mary Elizabeth McGlynn’s voice, I get chills. The good kind.
Man, it really gets on my nerves when reporters make claims without a stitch of research to back it up. You would think they would value their word enough to actually look into the facts before writing about it.