I’m sort of a baseball geek. I read the Baseball Prospectus every year, Rob Neyer is one of my favorite sportswriters of all time, and I positively HATE Paul DePodesta for Kevin Malone-ing my Dodgers.
Okay, so the last one has more to do with being a life-long Dodger fan, and less to do with stats . . . unless you believe, as I do, that pitching wins in the baseball playoffs the same way goaltending wins in hockey playoffs.
But anyway, the whole point of this post is to share a cool item, brought to us by my Baseball Page-A-Day calendar:
On this date, in 1911, Grover Cleveland Alexander, who was a rookie at the time and playing for the Phillies, outlasted Cy Young, who was playing for the Braves. The final score was 1-0.
So that’s cool and all, because Alexander went on to 373 career victories . . . but Cy Young, who held his own against the rookie, was forty-four.
I say that, in their honor, we re-raise the mound, eliminate the DH, and tell the crybabies players who wear body armor that if they’re going to crowd the plate, they may just get brushed back.
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Hear, Hear!
Any ‘ballplayer’ that wears body armor may just need to get it tested on a regular basis.
Wil, I love it when you show off your geeky side from the diamond. If you can eliminate the DH, I’d vote for you for president.
Add in “permanent Antarctic exile for big market owners who pout and demand forfeits because an itty bitty storm kept his opponents from leaving their state and ruining his Labor Day doubleheader.” and you’ve got a deal.
While I’m griping about Steindemort, it’s amazing that he had such a tantrum considering he lives in Tampa, his family lives in Tampa, and Tampa taxpayers financed his stupid little spring training field. If he paid attention to anything besides his on-the-verge of imploding divas, he’d know that parts of Tampa are severely flooded and that schools all over the bay area are still closed today, but instead of showing an ounce of compassion for his neighbors, he’s begging for a notch in the win column without having to earn it on the field (by playing a team they should beat with their eyes closed), in the hopes of maintaining some sort of edge in the divisional race.
-sigh-
lol
you are such a hopeless baseball geek! 😛
agreed…stats have been inflated on the offensive side for years…the lower mound came into existance ironically to stop pitchers from being so dominant…the year after the CARDINALS BOB GIBSON posted a modern record 1.12 E.R.A…and by the way…quite a series between the cards and the dodgers last week…i’m a cardinals fan…but i thought of you as the good guys took the series.
Nice post, interesting facts. Cy Young was intergral, no matter what 😀
All that, and mandatory drug testing. Including off-season random screening.
I hate kevin malone.
hehehe
ABSOLUTELY abolish the DH!
C’mon, is there a DH in the minor leagues, too? College… High School… Little League???
[Insert modified Tom Hanks line: “There’s no DH in baseball!!!”]
Sorry to break it to you, edwoodca, but there is a DH in the Minor Leagues, there is a DH in college, and there is a variant of the DH in high school. In high school, the DH can bat for anyone, so often the DH will bat for the catcher (or the shortstop, or the second baseman), and the pitcher will hit…
The DH rule in the AL is, actually, better than any of the others, as if the DH is moved into the field, the pitcher must bat. In every other league, if the DH is moved, someone else can be inserted as the DH.
As for my opinion of the DH, I have mixed feelings. I definately think that the NL should not have it, and it’s nice to see pitchers bat every once in a while. However, I hate having the pitcher batting when the pitcher is an automatic out: pitchers who bat should have to hit, just like everyone else. I guess that, as much as I like watching Travis Hafner (CLE) kill the baseball, I’d settle for having him at first (or third) base…
On “body armor”, though, I must disagree with the Main Author: too often, batters (and pitchers) are injured by being hit by baseballs. While the pitcher must have a right to throw inside, hitting a batter on purpose should be reclassified as assault and battery (as has been done with hit-by-a-stick in the NHL), and everyone should be able to protect himself from serious injury:
In 1920, Carl Mays of the Yankees hit Cleveland SS Roy Chapman in the head with a pitch. Chapman died the next day of his injury, which resulted in the introduction of batting helmets. In 1957, Cleveland LHP Herb Score, starting against the Yankees, was hit in the face by a batted ball off the bat of 2B/SS Gil McDougald, was seriously injured, and did not return to baseball until late in the 1958 season. Before Bob Lemon relieved, blood had to be cleaned off of the mound. Score never regained the dominance he had when he was younger. In 1997, Cleveland IF/DH Julio Franco hit a line drive off of the face of Detroit pitcher Willie Blair. Blair was very fortunate in that he returned in July – but his injury could have been much worse.
So, MORE, not LESS, protective gear is needed by players – in baseball, injuries should be relatively rare…
I think the ball players ought to send their body armor somewhere where it will do real service. And as far as raising the mound, Hell Yes! However, eliminate the DH, naw, it really does give some older players a chance to stick around longer, not to mention leave a slot for some of the younger players so they can show their mettle. More benefits then not…….
But how do you feel about Urban Shocker?
I say let ’em wear the pads, but if you get hit in the pads (excluding helmet or cup) you don’t get a base. As far as the DH is concerned… every other player is expected to be able to hit as well as play their position, why should the pitcher be any different?
But when/if the Cubs play the Dodgers in the post season… who do you root for, and how torn do you feel about it?
Here’s the post-season I’d like to see…
Cubs can take Atlanta in 4 with Maddux getting the shut-out in Game 4. Meanwhile your Dodgers can knock off those cocky bastards from St. Louis. Then, of course, the Cubs will spank the Dodgers without the slightest remorse.
Meanwhile, the Red Sox will surge to top of the AL East, and the despondent, Yankees will fall apart and cry themselves right out of the post-season entirely. Then… The Cubs/Red Sox world series, which will end with Nomar hitting a home run in the 12th inning to end game 7.
The End.
Hey wil. I’m a huge dodger fan myself. Watching pedro guerrero and fernando valenzuela play when I was a kid made me want to play baseball big time. Steve Sax, Kirk gibson. Good times. I’ll never forget Kirks homerun bottom of nine game 1 vrs the A’s. Anyway hope they win it all this year.
gnight.
Loving baseball like you, armor should be outlawed and raise the mound if you must, but Lord don’t let me watch Randy Johnson swing a bat. Nothing worse than seeing a pitcher start an inning or (even worse) a pitcher coming to the plate with the bases loaded with two outs. I swear if I was sitting on third and the pitcher came to the plate, I might as well go to the bench and find my glove, because I know with a .123 average I ain’t gonna see home plate.
Long live the DH! Long live ‘no easy outs’! Let pitchers pitch and hitters hit. Period.
“Steindemort” – classic.
Speaking of Steinbrenner, I think there is just a tiny feud going on between him and Tampa Bay ownership, so I think that played into it.
In addition to eliminating the DH, and raising the mound, astroturf and interleague play should be elimintated, and drug testing should be mandatory.
Ok guys. I am an aussie and while I like to watch the baseball on satellite when I can I am about to show my ignorance.
What is a DH?
When and why did they lower the mound? I don’t know much about baseball, but I thought they still had a mound.
All I can say is…I have missed reading your blog, and I am hoping for a Freeway world series!
What a perfect blog post for today. Before I checked the blog, I was thinking about how stupid the DH was for the entire thirty minute commute to work.
I was also just checking out MLB.com before I decided to check out WWdN and I was looking at historical stats. Cy Young has freakishly amazing records/stats.
I am a dedicated Astros fan, and I have to give a shout out to the the red hot ‘stros. They are so going to beat out the Cubs for the wild card. I am much more scared of the Giants than the baby bears. Of course I also know even if the Astros do make it, they’ll choke in the pos season. But I’ll be happy as long the Cubs do not make the playoffs.
One other thing. Does anyone else think this CHC/FLA game being played in Chicago is a load of horseshit?
To the Aussie, the DH is a Designated Hitter. Long explanation here at wikipedia.
So the DH is when there is a designated hitter for the pitcher? sorry for my lack of knowlege about baseball. Why is this important?
p.s. Will: It was great meeting you at the vegas con in august. I bought your book and you signed it. i just wanted to say that i never hated you. see ya!
I am so tired of folks complaing about Depodesta “Malone’ing” the Dodgers. The trade, on paper, was fantastic.
Penny was one of the hottest pitchers in the MAJORS at the time… and — even then — the intent was to get Randy Johnson (which didn’t work out, but would’ve been an incredible, short-term solution).
Loduca is a nice guy. Loduca is a pretty good player. And, he was a great leader/influence in the clubhouse. But, how many playoffs did he lead the Dodgers to? None. He lead them to the end of the season.
Hindsight shows that the trade is lacking… but only because of Penny’s unforeseeable injury.
Even as a Dodger fan, I pegged them for THIRD PLACE at best by September 1st. In fact, I bet with someone at my fantasy draft who believed that the Dodgers wouldn’t even win 65 games this year!
In the end, I’m enjoying the ride because I didn’t expect to be thinking about a playoff race this year.
I’m a Red Sox fan and I agree completely, eliminate the DH, raise the mound and take the armor away from hitters. These guys are lucky they don’t have to face guys like Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale.
“I hated to bat against (Don) Drysdale. After he hit you he’d come around, look at the bruise on your arm and say, ‘Do you want me to sign it?'” – Mickey Mantle
“He (Bob Gibson) couldn’t pitch today because they wouldn’t let him. The way he’d throw inside, he’d be kicked out of the game in the first inning, along with guys like Don Drysdale and Sandy Koufax.” – Red Schoendienst
BTW, Cy Young ended his career with 511 wins.
Okay, you read Prospectus and you don’t LOVE Depodesto?!? Wil, you’re smarter than that! As pointed out above, the dodgers moved a decent-hitting (nice guy) catcher an outfielder that couldn’t hit, and a very solid reliever for one of the top pitchers in the NL, a shot at Randy Johnson (which didn’t work, but it was a good shot), and a great hitting centerfielder. If either Penny or Rando were pitching for the Dodgers this would be considered the biggest coup trade of the year, but even without that they’re going to get several years of Penny’s arm (at a reasonable price) and they’re overall a much better team. Pitching wins in the playoffs, and their rotation will be vastly improved as soon as Brad steps in (You want to rely some more on Nomo?).
The DH – People dislike the DH because 1) pitchers who don’t have to go to bat aren’t held responsible for their actions and tend to hit guys more often. It’s sorta like the internet. 2) There are real strategy issues around a position in your batting order that is almost a sure out. The tactics of the NL (where the DH does not exist) are far more interesting than in the AL. and 3) There’s something “pure” about the idea that you have to field to hit and you have to hit to be on the field. So much of our lives are built on specialization, it’s nice to see a situation where it’s an advantage to be a complete and well-rounded player instead of just another cog.
About the hurricane – I’m more than happy to blame the Yankees for anything and everything out there. But just so you can be informed, this one doesn’t look to be Steinbrenner’s fault:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1876789
My problem with the designated hitter rule is not so much that the pitcher doesn’t have to hit (though this is a problem, as it essentially eliminates any penalty for a pitching change), but that the DH doesn’t have to field. It means that each team starts a hitting specialist and, a pitching specialist, and seven other guys every game. I’d much rather everyone have to do everything. After all, catchers don’t get free designated baserunners, and for that matter pitchers don’t get some extra dude to stand behind them on the mound to field their position for them.
And as for Body Armor, I think Wil was referring not to batting helmets and shin guards, but to the extra bulky items that make a player substantially bigger (and therefore easier to hit accidentally). One of the (many) things I hate about Barry Bonds is that he wears this huge elbow guard and squares to the plate in such a way that his elbow guard is generally hanging into the strike zone, and then he gets mad when people like Greg Maddox pitch him inside. With Bonds’s bat speed, a pitcher who isn’t allowed to pitch inside essentially has nowhere to pitch where Barry can’t get a good swing. He’s a tremendous hitter, but I think a good .200 worth of his OPS is due to that elbow guard. (please note that I’m not in favor of ever hitting anyone intentionally)
Why is everyone so down on the DH? Watching the pitcher hit is like watching white girls dance.
I hate the NL. Why don’t you bunt a little more, you wussies?
I’ve lived all my life(38 years, and counting) in an AL Town(cleveland). I can NEVER recall baseball without the DH. People always gripe about the DH(a baseball team with 10 players?- it’s called…SOFTBALL). But, year in, and year out, whether it’s inter-league, or the WS, I am BORED to tears with NL style baseball. The pitcher gets on deck, and it turns into an NBA game in the final two minutes! Bobby Fischer should put as much thought into his chess game as some of the NL managers do into batting a pitcher.
Baseball is a SIMPLE game. Throw the ball, HIT the ball, CATCH the ball. You want strategy? Go play stratego, or risk!
A pitcher is batting, and, tell me, who in the ENTIRE ballpark should KNOW what kind of pitch he is likely to see better than a PITCHER? And despite that, pitchers are notoriously bad batters. They should have FANTASTIC OBP’s, but, they either ground out, or go down swinging or looking.
I admit, a good pitcher’s duel is a great thing to watch on occasion, but, I wanna see them knock the stuffing out of the ball. I want dented aluminum, one over the green monster, one into SF bay, or out into Wrigleyville. I wanna see 9 guys standing on the field, knowing they can’t do anything, watching a ball sail into the seats. Show me Pronk trotting around the bases, not some lefty with a good slider going back to the dugout…
As for body armor, it’s a nuisance, at best, but, I can see the need. The way balls are made now(wound by machine, and “juiced”) as opposed to the old days(wound by hand by people), they are that much more lethal. I don’t think any pitcher goes out with the intent to cause injury, but, a modern baseball, thrown at 90+ mph, is inherently dangerous.
Having said all this, I still do believe that ownership of the plate should be contested with every pitch. You wanna crowd the plate? Go right ahead! The onus is on the pitcher to throw the strike, and he cannot afford to allow the batter to push the issue any further.
Put the mound back.
I disagree with your readers that have an affinity for the DH. PLEASE! It’s like getting your big brother to bat for you cause you suck. The game has always been, everybody fields and EVERYBODY hits. or attempts to. The gentleman that says he can’t remember baseball without a DH? How old are you? The DH is a very new thing in the long history of baseball. And the worst addition yet. It’s SISSY!
I TOLD you that your audioblog was “spit out your coffee funny!” Glad to know I am not alone! \m/
oh gosh.
post in the wrong place. Whatta nerd! Should have thought before clicking– SORRY! 🙂
Ok.
Raise the mound – sure.
Take off the body armor – sure. In fact, Bonds’ armor is illegal since it says in the rule book that you can only wear it if you are protecting a specific injury, and I dare someone to tell me that Bonds has been “injured” for all these years.
Now, I’ll kick off the firestorm.
The DH stays.
I’m sick and tired of NL fan boys talking about how much harder it is to manage in the National League. Oooh…you have the pitcher bunt when he comes up if there is a runner on. You do a double switch so that when you make a pitching change the pitcher doesn’t lead off the next inning….oooh that’s tough.
I don’t see what putting a nearly automatic out (ever see the batting averages of NL starting pitchers) into the lineup benefits anyone.
Yes, there are pitchers that know what the heck to do with a bat in their hands, but they are few and far between.
The DH stays and it should get migrated over to the NL too.
Fave quote from “Field of Dreams”
Young Archie Graham (after being brushed back)
“Hey, ump, how about a warning.”
Ump: “OK (to Graham) Watch out you’s don’t get killed.”
i dont know how many star trek fans there are here but… ben sisko on ds9 didnt like the DH. he mentioned it like 6 time durring the series.
GO CUBS!!!
If there is a Cubs/Red Sox WS the world will end as we know it. I don’t think the powers that be would allow it. Something like a cosmic imbalance.
Wil-
I just found your site recently. I haven’t commented here because there are so damned many I hate to take too much time out of your day. But I can’t let this one pass.
1. GO Cardinals!!
2. The DH has no place in Major League Baseball. There are plenty of pitchers out there who can swing the bat — 2 of them are on the Cardinals (Marquis .266 and Williams .244). There are also more than a few players that are great on defense but can’t hit a lick. The game is supposed to be 9 players who play in the field, and who bat.
3. Raise the mound back to where it was.
4. Let the pitchers pitch inside without fear of being tossed from the game. Any batter that charges the mound should be suspended for a month. If a pitcher is deliberately hitting batters, then the opposing pitcher will even it out. Let the players play.
Sheesh. I have lots more to say on this. Maybe I’ve just found a post for my own blog…
~Easy
PS- GO CARDS.
Hey Wil – If you enjoy stats that actually mean something, tidbits that are contextually rich and tell you something about the game, you’ll love this great little baseball book by Luke Salisbury called “The Answer Is Baseball”.
Among other stories, stats, and anecdotes, Luke names the only two pitchers who threw home run pitches to both Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron. The significance is that the Babe retired about 16 years before Hank showed up, meaning the two pitchers in question were no slouches – they stuck around for nearly two decades.
Lose the DH. Make the manager manage. If the pitcher can’t hit then there’s a decision to be made, now isn’t there.
Maybe the A.L. could mix in some bunts and stolen bases again. That’s not exciting??
Raise the mound. I can’t stand “good” starters with ERA’s around 5.2. This is baseball, not over-the-line.
And sorry, Wil, but “Go Padres”.
I’m going to have to say, “GO O’S!”
I will have to say that I am not in favor of body armor, and that the mound must be raised. But I like the DH, for no real reason. I guess I like hitting.
Easy, I have a copy of “The Answer is Baseball,” which is a truly good book. My favorite bit? The fact that the pitcher who has the best winning percentage against the Yankees just happens to be … Babe Ruth.
Rob Neyer’s my favorite writer too. It’s just too bad his column got moved to the subscribed section; I can’t afford to register, which means I can no longer read his wonderfully detailled columns. *SOB*
Still, there’s my fantasy team, the Blue Eagles, which is rocking their division. Not much competition there.
The Cardnials are going all the way……sorry LA =)
Hi Wil,
I was watching a piece on Bob Gibson on ESPN classic and he was so dominating that was one of the reasons they lowered the mound. He had an amazingly low ERA, under 1, that they had to do something to get rid of the dominance of pitchers. Maybe the balance has swung the other way now, but it is interesting looking at why they did what they did back in the day.
I am torn about the DH. Since I am a Yankee fan, and watch mostly AL games, I am a bit biased. It is cool seeing games in NL parks because the pitchers do hit. Then maybe Roger Clemens might think twice about throwing at people. I know Andy Pettite got injured when he hit for the Astros at the begining of this year.
1977 and 1978 were my years as a Yankee fan, but then we had a long spell without anything, except losing to the Dodgers in 1981.
Keep up the writing and forget about the mindless people at Entertainment Weekly.
Later,
Chris
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