Dear Lazy Web: Video Cameras?

Dear Lazy Web: I’m thinking about getting an inexpensive (<$300) (Let’s go $400-$450. I guess <$300 isn’t realistic for the features I want) small video camera to take with me on all my Geek Tour stops this summer, starting with Mysterious Galaxy and the Stone World Bistro this weekend.

I haven’t had time to do the normal amount of research I’d like to do, but I’m sure at least one of you out there on the interweebs has.

The only thing I know I do not want is something that records onto DVDs. We reviewed lots of those on inDigital, and they all sucked out loud. I think I want something that records to a hard drive or solid state memory instead of tapes. HD isn’t that important to me if it adds too much to the price, and I don’t have a particular brand loyalty or aversion. I assume that whatever I get will play nice with iMovie. Oh, and I need to be able to pick it up by Friday.

If you’ve got a suggestion on something to consider or avoid at all costs, would you leave a comment? Maybe we’ll have the bonus side effect of building a useful list for other people, too.

KTHXBAI.

Discover more from WIL WHEATON dot NET

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

50 thoughts on “Dear Lazy Web: Video Cameras?”

  3. I did, yeah. It only records for 60 minutes, which isn’t enough time for me (most of my shows go at least 70 minutes, and I like to shoot some establishing shot and stuff before and after.)

  4. When I last checked out the market, ~2 years ago, cameras that recorded to HDD did not play well with iMovie. I don’t know if this has gotten better…
    I was also told the two brands to go for were Sony and Canon. Sony has an advantage in low light situations – which I sometimes miss since I got a Canon. The Canon fit my hand better – thats why I got it. Plus Knew it wouldn’t install a rootkit on my computer 😉

  5. Hey Wil,
    I hope to see you at Mysterious Galaxy. My business partner (he’s an artist) and I are planning on creating a web tv show so I actually did a little research on this. Unfortunately, you are really not going to find a harddrive camera for under $300. You can get a JVC one in the $400 range that is compatible with Imovie. Hope this helps.

  10. Gizmodo has reviewed a couple in the past couple of weeks, fyi.
    A year ago, I bought and am in love with the Canon Powershot SD800is. It is a point and shoot pocket camera, but it also blew my camcorder out of the water in recording ability. I picked up an 8GB SDHC card so I could record up to an hour of video, and it’s all solid-state. It’s our primary video camera now, and conveniently our “party” camera too.
    They make an upgraded SD890is for $400 too.

  11. Hey wil,
    I actually work for canon(though not anywhere near the camera portion of the company. Even so I do buy mostly canon cameras and unfortunately we just broke into the HDD camera market. and all of our HDD models are HiDef only which means they’ll be hard to find for sub-500 dollars(even with my company discount). With that said our models while brand new are still considered to have terrific video quality(The NFL and MLB use our pro versions for HD-Broadcasts).

  12. Sanyo sells a number of flash (SD) based, pocket-sized video cameras. I bought the VPC-CG65 about six months ago and have been very happy with it. I paid $300 but the price has dropped since then, I think. I’m not a videophile at all, but my impression is that the video quality is very good. If I have any complaints it’s that the low-light performance isn’t great and the battery only lasts about 75 minutes. It records at 640×480/30fps, but they also sell similar models that do full HD. My favorite things about it are that: a) It fits in my pocket, and b) It records directly to H.264.

  13. As someone who works in video cameras at a certain A to Z on-line retailer, I’d have to recommend the Flip if you want something easy and lightweight. it doesn’t have the best video in the world but it is an amazing little thing.
    Under $300 is a hard price point for much of anything else. If you’re looking for something a little sturdier than a Flip, I’d take a look at the Sanyo pieces, specifically the CG9.

  14. I have a Sony NSC-GC1 that I use for some basic recording stuff. Requires Sony’s proprietary memory stick (ugh) but it’s nice, simple, easy to use. It also has a tripod mount (unlike the Aiptek models) in case you’re into the whole tripod thing. Goodness knows I am.

  15. I’ve no suggestions my own self, I just came to read others comment’s and leach their ideas. But after seeing several people metion Flip Video, I go to JoCo’s blog to see he’s just posted a video of his trip to Seattle made with a Flip Video. So, kinda of a product demo, I guess.

  16. Thanks for all the pointers, everyone.
    I looked at the Flip, but it doesn’t record long enough for my needs. I really need something that can record at least 120 minutes — does that mean I’m stuck with tape? I don’t mind tape, but it’s just more shit to carry around, you know? I’d rather swap out memory cards, because they’re smaller and more portable.
    I’ve increased my budget to $450 (which probably means $500) because it appears that <$300 isn't realistic for the features I want.

  17. Personally I like the medium that lets me record up to 160 minutes of uncompressed crystal clear audio and video data over its massive 18 gigs of storage. Best of all the technology is cheap, plentiful, and well tested…miniDV.
    You are talking about a tape that is less than half a deck of cards. Swapping them out shouldn’t be much of a burden. Plus how many memory cards do you have? You will have to be copying the compressed footage as you go if you run out of space. And because its compressed iMovie will choke on it. It will have to take the compressed footage, convert it back to DV, and when you are done with edits compress it again.
    You’re looking at a more expensive product that will give you lower quality. Absolutely perfect tech for short quick clips, lousy if you want to do something with them.
    Remembers, you cannot put back quality.
    So far a good little miniDV camera has gotten favorable reviews over at NewEgg:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830180097

  19. I have a Canon ZR600. You probably can’t go wrong with any of their ZR series. They use MiniDV tapes which are easy to find and cheap. Most (if not all) of them have a FireWire port and they just work when you connect them to iMovie.

  20. So many things to mention, so little space to type.
    If you’re going to go with an HDD- or Flash-based camera, make sure you give thoughtful consideration to the archiving of your footage. With tape-based cameras, it’s easy; your master tape goes on the shelf and you can be reasonably sure that the footage will last for 10 years or longer. The “data” of the other formats is so much easier to lose. Will you be able to archive it, in it’s original form, to cheap optical media (DVD-ROM)? Would it be better to back it up on an external HDD? (And back that drive up because hard drives fail, too?) You never know when you might need to go back to the master recording… This is the single-most important reason I still recommend tape-based cameras.
    Most DV camcorders (miniDV and digital-8) have better optics than the point-and-shoot, flash-based, still/video camera hybrid things out there. Lenses go a long ways toward the quality of your video. If VIDEO is what you want, get something that’s a VIDEO camera first, and a still camera second.
    If possible, I’d suggest looking into a 3-chip camera. 3 CCD chips will give you better color separation, resulting in better images, but in all honestly, it may not be something you’d notice without a side-by-side comparison. Panasonic has a 3-CCD model in your price range, the PV-GS320.
    There are many other important features to look for in a camera (manual controls, microphone/headphone jacks, size of the CCD/CMOS chip, etc.), but without getting more information about your own needs, it’s hard to recommend a specific camcorder.

  21. To follow up on a_midgett’s post. I agree 100%, I nearly forgot about the archival factor and that is an extremely good point. The Panasonic I posted is a 3 CCD chipped camera as well. But quite honestly all I did was quickly look through the specs and the reviews.

  23. You make an absolutely vital and important point, a_midgett, that I hadn’t even considered.
    I’m currently looking to see if the model you recommended plays nicely with iMovie. Initial results indicate that it does.
    Thank you all so so so so much for your answers and suggestions. I’m building a comparison list based on all your input.

  24. Wil,
    I was looking for the same thing last year and found I could get outstanding standard def video out of a Sony Cybershot 10 megapixel camera (the current model number is the W170).
    It’s a very compact still camera that does excellent video. And the new model referenced above records at higher bit rates than the one I bought last year.
    The only gotchya is that you need to use VisualHub to convert it into a format that iMovie can read. I usually just output it to DV and dump it into iMovie.
    Here are some YouTube links to a few videos I made with it. I can send you some raw footage so you have a sense of the quality if you’d like:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmtpjaPIJzA

  25. Glad to have helped. After reading the follow-up comments, a few points:
    1) You mentioned the need to record 120 minutes at a time. The most you’ll get out of miniDV tapes is 90 minutes – and that’s only if the camera has an LP mode (At least some Sony camcorders have an LP mode; not sure about the Panasonic model, however.) 60 minutes is standard on all DV tapes.
    2) I can 99.9% guarantee that any miniDV camera will play nice with iMovie. I don’t think there’s a DV camera out there that doesn’t have a firewire connection (at least I’ve never come across one, and I’ve worked with many cameras over the years.) When in doubt, check for a port labeled IEEE-1394, iLink, or Firewire. And be sure to pry up all those damn rubber covers that are deviously flush with the camera body.
    3) I think it’s pretty serendipitous that both Dave and I recommended the same camera, but don’t just throw your money down because of our doubled-up recommendation. Make sure to go over the feature list with your own wants and needs in mind.

  26. I have the Panasonic SDR-H200 (30GB 3CCD 3.1MP Hard Disk Drive with 10x Optical Image Stabilized Zoom.) We bought it last year for under $600 and we’ve been happy with it. It went to San Diego Comic Con, Vegas, etc.

  27. Honestly, Wil, you’re better off sticking with picking up a good MiniDV camera for now.
    Been a video editor for 10 years now and I honestly haven’t been impressed with the level of quality of any HDD camera or, as you so rightly put it, any DVD camera, on the consumer level market.
    The problem with hard drive video cameras is that the footage is saved in a compressed video format, usually as an MPEG2, compressed QT .mov, etc.
    If you were to compare footage shot in the same conditions with a MiniDV camera vs. an HDD, followed by burning it to a DVD to watch on your TV, I’d bet that you’d notice a higher quality in picture and sound on the MiniDV footage.
    HDD is still an unproven format, costs way more than it should be and as I said earlier, compresses the footage to suck quality. It’s fine if you’re simply going to watch as is on the camera, but not if you’re looking to edit it and burn to DVD, etc.
    As an added plus, a majority of MiniDV cameras are way friendlier with iMovie: Sony, Canon, etc. MiniDV tape FTW!

  28. a_midgett: The only feature I see missing from that camera is a mic input. I figured I’d be needing to wear a radio mic when I do these performances, because the camera will likely be pretty far away from the stage.
    Any suggestions for a similarly-priced model that will take a mic input?

  29. I got a used Sony HDR-SR5 on eBay for <$500 a few weeks back. I like that it has: 1) HDD: no tapes, backing up raw footage fits into my current backup plan (rsync to remote RAID NAS, etc.) 2) HD: because seriously, it's better and you'll thank yourself for not having to upgrade in the near future. Cons are the proprietary video format, but a neat little Linux script takes care of that no problem. And if you can afford more, get a newer/higher end Sony HD HDD camcorder (more space, better video format options), it's worth it. Please do let us know what you end up getting though.

  30. Well, other than the mic issue, I’d recommend the camera that Dave and a_midgett mentioned also. Bummer.
    At Christmas, I picked up an HDD recorder – it was $100 more expensive than similar MiniDVs, so I figured that’d be enough to balance out the quality vs the extra technology. Boy was I wrong! After the first day of using it, I returned it (and the %#$ expensive battery) and got (most of) my money back (minus restocking fees).
    I got that Panasonic instead, and absolutely love it. I won’t want for another camcorder for a long, long time. Flipping tapes is a small, small price to pay for the quality. Can’t help with the mic issue, though… Maybe there’s another model with mic input?

  31. Hi Wil,
    Not to influence your decision at all, but if you decide to go with the Panasonic recommended, I can hook you up with a discount of ~$100 over retail. Drop me a PM if that’s the way you go.

  32. The Panasonic PV-GS320 is a great deal. I have one, and a Sony VX2000 (which cost me about 10x’s more than the Panasonic when I bought it 5 years ago). They have equal quality to be completely honest. I use the Panasonic for travel and extra angles on pro shoots. I love it!!
    Consider though, the Panasonic mic is very sensitive and will pick up every laugh, clap, tick and tock around it, while drowning you (on stage) out. Oh, and a tri-pod would be nice to put it on too. Great, there goes your budget. 🙂

  33. A cursory look seems to indicate that there aren’t really any other 3-CCD cameras in that price range. Panasonic’s next model up, the PV-GS500, does have a mic input, but it floats around $700. Unless you can find it on eBay or something, I doubt you can get it down to your price range.
    Setting aside the 3-CCD aspect, it should be easy enough to find a single-chip camera with all the same capabilities (and a mic input, naturally. That’s an amazing oversight on Panasonic’s part!) in your price range. Personally, I would trust any camcorder by Canon, Sony, or Panasonic.

  34. Well, based on the mic input requirement, I looked around and found the Sony Handycam DCR-HC40; it’s mini-dv, has the mic input and seems to get good reviews. Also, it seems to be around $300. It does sound like the battery life isn’t great so you may need to get an extra. Hope this helps and I’ll see you at Mysterious Galaxy or I’ll come have a beer!

  36. The last Sony CD I put in my computer installed a rootkit that rendered my DVD R/RW drive unusable as a burner, and Sony never so much as apologized let alone admit guilt. So… I recommend against anything with the Sony brand that might require attaching or inserting anything into your computer. Once bitten…
    The JVC HDD camcorders have a nifty little docking station with a DVD burner built in so you can in a pinch (on the road) immediately burn copies of your videos for friends/family. That’s a pretty cool feature. The downside of course is that the burner/docking station costs somewhere around $189 on top of the camcorder and you of course need to make sure the camcorder is compatible with the burner dingus. If you can get over that, I think it’s a really nifty combo.
    And yea, Sony… Whatever. Nice electronics but are they good enough to risk *another* electronic buggering without so much as a reacharound?

  37. To clarify my last post and why I don’t forgive… I use my computer for WORK and I can’t afford to risk installing anything from a company with a track record like Sony, since the last time they made my computer unusable, were not held accountable (hurray for political campaign contributions!), never admitted to doing anything wrong, and as a result have no reason to refrain from doing the same thing all over again. It’s a bit like finding your computer is serving child porn, wiping it clean, and then installing a really nifty utility written by the guy who you know with certainty was the one who originally put the kiddie porn on your computer the first time. Well, duh.
    There are TONS of viable and often superior alternatives on the market, so it honestly baffles me why anyone lets anything Sony makes near their computers. It doesn’t pass a single common-sense test I can think of, doubly so for people who rely on their computer for their income.

  40. The only suggestions I have are these:
    Get a camera with 3 CCD’s – They will make life so much easier if you ever decide to start editing stuff. Color correction is much easier with three separate signals, one for each primary color.
    Hi Def is the way to go. – Need I say more??
    It’s all about the lens. – it doesn’t matter what format you get. If the lens sucks, nothing else matters.

  41. Regarding mini-DV tape. If you don’t mind paying three times as much for the blank tape, they do make an 80-minute mini-DV tape, which should cover the time of your talks. If you go with 60-minute mini-DV tapes and record in LP mode, you’ll save money on tape stock but you’ll have a problem. Mini-DV tapes recorded in LP mode are usually only playable on the camcorder that recorded the tape, due to slight differences in head alignment. When the camcorder you buy breaks (not “if,” “when”), you might not be able to play your tapes without all kinds of drop outs and other defects.
    On another subject, when you are taping one of your talks, if you are running on battery power, make sure that your flip-out screen is flipped in to conserve power.
    J. D.

  42. So I think the great web-mind has at least talked you into going with miniDV. But like all good geeks we were looking at prettier and cooler cameras. If budget is an issue and audio inputs are a must, I would go to any big box store and get a miniDV camera with a microphone input. I don’t think you will find the perfect camera without way overspending. But you can get a camera that gets the job done on a budget.
    The only alternative that I can think of is to use the condensor microphone on the Panasonic PV-GS320 and use your iRiver to record audio directly from the soundboard/lavalier. Then mix the audio in iMovie later. Or you put down $700 clams and get the Panasonic PV-GS500 which has the microphone inputs.

  43. I have the Aiptek GO-HD which is a 720p 3x optical zoom digicam. With an 8GB SD card, it can record 4 hours of video. I assume the newer Aiptek Action HD (1080p) is based on the same mechanism (3x optical zoom). It can hold a 32GB SD card and it looks like it does less compression for 720p recordings since both 1080p and 720p both hold 8 hours.
    The picture quality is decent, but there are compression artifacts in rapid motion frames.
    One thing that may bother you (and bothers me some) is that the auto-focus motor gets picked up by the internal microphone and there’s no jack for an external microphone. It’s not super loud, but it definitely is there in the video. If you are recording in a noisy environment it’s not so noticeable, but on a quiet recording it really stands out.

  44. I’ve been a very satisfied Canon PowerShot S3-IS owner for years. I think the latest version is the S5-IS. It’s a combo camera/video unit that records to SD. You can see thousands of photos and dozens of videos from these cameras on my family site at http://www.kentsmotherman.com

  45. I would say avoid the HD and 24p yadda yadda prosumer cameras. You just want to document your day to day for Vblogging right?
    I bought a Panasonic DV camera 8 years ago that still does exactly what I want it for. it takes a decent image but is limited with regard to control No manual Iris and the optics leave a lot to be desired.
    Hell my wife will Vblog into her still camera (coolpix) and post that stuff. And editing your HD footage becomes problematic unless you Have premier Pro or the big name Mac package. NTSC DV you can edit in MS Movie or whatever else comes with your preferred OS and you do not need huge amounts of storage and throughput to transfer.
    So I say go to your local Costco and find somethign in your price range that has a firewire output and you will be golden.
    Unless you have your Sundance speech all memorized the Go Red baby.

  46. I think I could sum my thought up in three words:
    1) Sony
    2) Hard Drive
    3) Magix Video Deluxe
    You need to edit these videos, don’t you?

  48. As a video producer that works with both iMovie and Final Cut, I can say with a high level of certainty that NONE of the consumer-grade hdd camcorders play nice with Apple’s products. They all record in mpeg format, which means you need to either a) convert the video to Quicktime, or b) demux the audio to an .aiff file. Mpegstreamclip (freeware) does a nice quick job of it, but it adds a step- and you have to be careful in editing or your audio and video de-sync. MiniDV is still the best way to go, or even digital Hi8 (cheap cheap cheap!). And I haven’t found a hard drive camera for less than $650 yet (though they’re dropping fast). Also, they ALL only have USB ports for offloading the video, which is very slow. It can take an hour to dump 20 or 30 gigs of video- faster than real-time, but not a lot!
    Some people have said you need dv for iMovie, but it will actually play nice with almost any Quicktime file as well. Most others will need to be demuxed (separate the audio from the video stream) before you’ll be able to include the audio in your project.
    One other advantage to MiniDV is better quality- however that’s offset by larger filesizes for captured tape.

  49. Hi there. You and I met at the last JoCo show. (We talked about PAX and mutual acquaintances from the UCLA Comedy Club.) Anyhoo, I didn’t see anyone mention the RCA Small Wonder It’s much like the Flip, but the high-end model has a flip-out LCD screen for self-recording and an SD expansion slot for extra memory. All for about $100. No audio input, though.
    Hope to see you at the next JoCo show on May 18. (House of Blues!)

  50. I realize this may be a bit late, but I just saw this post…..
    We just purchased a Sanyo Xacti CG9 – very compact, 9MP stills, and the video is MPEG4/h.264 native. Importing to either iPhoto or iMovie ’08 works flawlessly. Pics are great as well. Haven’t tested extensively but we are going to Mexico on the 17th and the wife is going to put it through its paces.
    $279 through Amazon

Comments are closed.

Related Posts

Recent Posts