Last week, I came across an image that sparked a reflection on a lot of the trauma I experienced as a child. It’s trauma that lingers in my life, and it’s trauma that I discovered a whole lot of other people share.
Well, I posted about my trauma and how it affected my philosophy and life choices on my Facebook.
Here’s that post:.
This is, apparently, what the actual Jesus of Nazareth looked like, according to an artist and an algorithm and actual, historical, data (as opposed to a story that white people tell each other).
I am an atheist. I do not believe in god, or the devil, or heaven, or hell. But I like and respect this guy. He was a rebel, he was an antiauthoritarian, he dedicated his life to helping the poor, the sick, the indigent, the people who were discarded and rejected by society. He hung out with sex workers and lepers, and gave comfort to the sick and suffering, and he loudly and relentlessly called out the hypocrisy of the church and its leaders. As I understand it, he was like, “Hey, you’re a sinner. That’s a bummer. Let me help you be a better person. No, I don’t expect anything from you for that. I just want to be as loving as I can be.” He was a really cool guy.
This guy, in this picture, is not the Jesus I was introduced to in parochial school. The Jesus I was introduced to was soooooo white, like super super super white, and he was keeping an eye on you so he could snitch on you to his dad, who was SUPER PISSED AT EVERYTHING YOU DID all the time for some reason. The Jesus I knew was, like, maybe going to be okay with you, as long as you knew what a giant fuck up you were. And he was absolutely not accepting of anyone who didn’t do exactly what the authority figures at school told us we had to do. And Reagan was essentially his avatar sent to Earth. If we didn’t worship Reagan the same way we were supposed to worship white Jesus, we were going to have a REALLY bad time. Did I mention that I was, like, 8 when all of this was drilled into me?
I deeply resent American Christianity. It has brought nothing but pain into my life. I deeply resent and despise evangelical Christians who turned this guy in this picture, who was reportedly a cool, loving, gentle, dude, who was a legit rebel, into someone who hates all the same things they hate, and who LOVES authoritarians the same way they do. I despise the people who do all sorts of cruel, hurtful, hateful things in this guy’s name. And they are EVERYWHERE in America.
I don’t know what it’s like in the rest of the world. What I do know is that, in America, this person has been perverted into a weapon, a cudgel, to be used against the same people the actual Jesus loved and stood up for. It’s disgusting.
And, look, if someone professes to follow the teachings of this dude, whose WHOLE FUCKING THING was “love everyone. Period. No exceptions”, and they don’t, like, do that? They are as bad as the money changers in the temple. I know that this dude loves them, because that’s his whole thing, but I suspect that, if this dude exists, he is disappointed and maybe a little embarrassed by them.
As an afterthought: I can’t stop thinking about how this dude was an immigrant, and poor. I keep thinking that, if he showed up in … let’s say Texas, today, how badly he would be treated by the very same people who use his name and pervert his teachings to exert control over the very same people Jesus spent his entire life looking after.
And, honestly, none of this would even matter if the American Christian extremists would keep their white Jesus out of our laws and government.
The most unexpected, and ultimately healing result of this post were the literal thousands of comments (over 11K last time I looked) from people who shared my experience in their own way, who said “your experience is valid, I share it, and I am so sorry.” There were literally hundreds of comments, many from clergy, who said, “I do not share your experience, but it is still valid. I’m so sorry.” And then there were about a dozen or so angry, judgmental, proselytizing people who exemplified why I despise what I defined as American Christianity and the Evangelicals who use it to hurt and control others. I spent more time participating in comments and discussion on that post than I have on anything else I’ve ever written, and it was profound. It was healing. It was supportive. It was valuable. And, for the moment at least, it’s all gone, because Facebook has decided that post is hate speech.
What?
As far as I can tell, there’s nothing hateful there. I mean, after I was so abused by self-professed Christians, I am allowed to despise them. I am allowed to reject their world view, and I am allowed to talk about it. There’s nothing hateful or bigoted about that. I am allowed to draw a boundary, express why that boundary is there, and defend it.
And yet, as happens so frequently when I write something that right wing authoritarians get angry about, I’ve been locked out of my Facebook account, again, for what they claim is hate speech and bigotry. Clearly, someone or group of someones brigaded my post, and Facebook responded as it always does.
They should at least be honest, and call it what it is: White Evangelical Fragility can’t handle someone like me expressing these feelings and beliefs. It threatens everything they hold dear, and we just can’t have that, not in White Jesus America.
I’ve appealed the action. It will take days to get a response, if I get any response at all. This, coupled with yesterday’s outage, is a good argument for breaking up Facebook, subjecting it to more rigorous and responsive oversight, and for having our own personal spaces online where an untouchable corporation can’t interfere with our communications.
UPDATE:
Dear Wil. From a white male South African growing up in an apartheid South Africa, I relate more to this post than you can possibly imagine. Our government and churches preached apartheid as if it were gospel and as if Jesus himself condemned “these people”, our fellow South Africans, as lesser beings (that is not able to go to heaven), because of their skin colour. Growing up and growing as a human being the realisation of what the church had done, hand in hand governments, has put me off religion forever. The awful things that has been done in the name of Jesus (and religion as a whole), is atrocious. Thanks for speaking up, not only about this but about all of your personal struggles and personal victories. You inspire man.
There’s a certain privilege in not needing Facebook. Many people would love to walk away from it, but depend on it for work, or as the only way to maintain any kind of togetherness or intimacy with distant loved ones. I am one of the lucky ones, in that regard. In the past 2 years, I’ve logged onto Facebook zero times, and only a handful of times in the 2 years before that. My livelihood and connections with people I want to be connected with are unaffected.
So I don’t view it as a badge of honor that I have nothing to do with Facebook, but rather a badge of privilege. I don’t scold people still using Facebook, or shame them for maintaining an account. I don’t strut and preen like one of those bothsiderist “independents” who think there’s no difference between the political parties in the US, and who think not participating in the shaping of their own country is somehow a virtue. Instead, I try to be mindful of the bait-and-switch so many people suffer on Facebook, signing on to do business, or to stay close with loved ones, only to be trapped in the cesspool it became.
So, I’m sorry this happened to Wil. I’m sorry he has to endure the slings and arrows of thin-skinned bigots who think freedom is freedom from accountability, freedom from judgment or criticism, freedom from sharing a planet with “undesirables,” and freedom from any duty to other human beings. Just as I’m sorry for all the people who need Facebook more than they want it.
The world got along before Facebook. Businesses functioned and families connected. We have all willingly tied ourselves to it and would all find our way back if it were gone. And the world might be a better place.
I detect a faint whiff of victim-blaming in this reply. Nobody willingly tied themselves to Facebook’s hate-boosting algorithm. They signed up for what Facebook purported to be, not what it metastasized into. Why punish people who did nothing wrong?
Not everyone has willingly tied themselves to it. As Randall said, quitting Facebook or never having it in the first place is a privilege not everyone has. My job requires everyone to have an active Facebook account to interact with clients, and my position doesn’t even have anything to do with social media. That is the reality for a lot of people, so blaming the people mired in it for what Facebook has become isn’t fair. Blame the corporations who create and abuse the algorithms.
Thank you for posting this! I have had/am having/will have had (trying to mimic TBBT here … and failing miserably) similar experiences. As far as Facebook goes, I have found a site that has potential: MeWe.com. Here is a link: https://mewe.com/i/kennzaney1
I have enjoyed your past posts, because I have gone through some of the same experiences while growing up (and continue to grow up). LLAP.
I am old enough to remember a time when there was no such thing as Facebook. People did their own websites. A long time ago the internet was mainly intelligent people. Now you have every fucktard on planet Earth on it. What do you expect. Facebook isn’t there for you. It is there for Mark Zuckerberg.
Great post on all counts, Wil!
I don’t do Facebook – it is broken, and has broken society, and Facebook doesn’t want to do anything to fix it.
I would encourage everyone to have their own personal website, or at least multiple places to put their content. Post to your blog first and then link to Facebook if you like that sort of thing. Maybe I’m just old school, but I never miss your content thanks to RSS — unless you don’t put t on your blog in the first place, and only put it on FB.
Is it wrong that I’m almost happy that Wil is blocked from Facebook so that it comes to the blog instead? Otherwise I wouldn’t have seen this thoughtful comment about religion.
Thank you.
Wil, a lot of people have been damaged by a lot of people. Such is the nature of this world.
I’m sorry you had those experiences. You are not alone. But I’m sure you know that all people who claim a Christian worldview are not like those you described. While stories are so very important to understanding each other, the generalizations made were not in a “truth in love” spirit– and cause a false shadow to be cast over many folks who may be in the sanctification process– those who have appropriated Christ within them and are striving to be Christ-like. Such believers do exist.
I myself converted to Christianity from Atheism (and Buddhism prior to that) about 11 years ago. I studied before I did so and I continue to study. Currently I operate a small tea house in a national forest location called “Philosophy in the Forest.” It’s a worldview neutral space to think about the meaning of life through truth-seeking. I operate on Kierkegaard’s model of “life stages” and believe that most worldview holders (theists/Christians included), are not living their faith– but instead are wearing their faith like a “badge”– which cause them to be judgemental and hypocritical. I wish you peace Wil– great peace.
I write this completely in a spirit of love for you as a fellow traveler. Gertie
I’m another who agrees with you Gertie, and there are more out there. In my case I was raised Christian (United Methodist), and what I learned and try to follow is the Jesus Wil described. And yes, I am disappointed in many of my neighbors who call themselves “Christian”.
I’d like to invite you, Wil, and others to become aware of Rt. Rev. Steven Charleston. He’s a Native American (Choctaw) elder who is also a retired Bishop of Alaska for the Episcopal Church. His message seems to align with the Jesus Wil described. He is mostly easily found on Facebook where he posts daily thoughts most days. A recent reads “We can do it. I know we can. Nurture a community all people can call home. We can do that. Nurture a world every life can share. We can do that too. These two tasks are a vision every person of faith can embrace and pursue. I feel hopeful about our future because our job description is so clear. Wherever we are, whatever we do, however we can: we all strive to create community and protect the Earth. We each contribute to advancing these two principles together. Day by day, we grow them into being. We invite others to join us. Until, one day, we tip the scales to hope and watch the first blessings of peace take shape before us. We can do it. I know we can.” This particular thought is posted to the Facebook page of the Native American/Indigenous Ministries of the Episcopal Church at https://www.facebook.com/121658134519767/posts/4920072524678280/ and on Steven Charleston’s personal page at https://www.facebook.com/100044440269364/posts/413444780146861/. I’ve read a couple of Bishop Charleston’s books, and he seems inclined to welcome people of all faiths. He has stated that he would prefer people to eat together and share pictures of their families instead of arguing over doctrine.
Wil most emphatically never said “all Christians” so don’t act like he did. I’m sure you’re a great person, though I’ll never understand women who follow patriarchal religions. (Guessing you’re a woman by the name Gertie)
Nothing about American Christianity is Christian. It’s the most dangerous institution in the world, and it’s been warped beyond recognition and control–and it only took about 30 years for it to happen. At current, it’s very very close to ending the United States as we know it. We are heading full-steam into Gilead. I’ve been thinking for several years that I should probably move out of the state where I live (SC), but lately I’m starting to wonder if I shouldn’t find an entirely new country to live in. This one is broken and about to implode.
Facebook’s policing has been turned over nearly 100% to bots, and once those bots have decided you’ve violated TOS, you’re pretty much done. The last time I got put in FB jail it was only for 24 hours, but the response I got upon appeal was more or less “you can appeal this if you want, but we don’t have enough live people working to review the claim, so good luck having anyone actually look at it before it expires.”
“American Christianity” of the politically involved typehas a long history in this country, and the political imvolvement was a direct result, and reaction against thegains of the Civil Rights movement of the 60’s. The “Moral Majority” was founded as a DIRECT reaction to Bob Jones University being forced to integrate, or lose it’s federal funding. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/
Wil you shouldn’t think evangelicals represent Christianity anyway. Jesus is long gone and they are just kind of there. Everyone knows most of them are hypocritical and rotten anyway. They supported the Dictator Trump so what more is there to say. They have been poisoned. They don’t represent Jesus anyway.
I was one of the people to comment and agree. The most vocal elements of American Christianity do not exemplify many of the teachings of Jesus. I’m sorry you had that experience, and unfortunately it is not unique. I don’t think it was hate speech. I hope the post gets put back up so that others can read and reflect as well.
Have you ever read “The Ragamuffin Gospel” by Brennan Manning?
What I find amusing is that in pretty much every other country in the world, it’s considered outrageous to talk about your religion, especially in a political situation. England, where they have a state-established religion: politicians don’t talk about religion. Here, politicians are sunk if they don’t, and we allegedly have a wall separating church and state. Yeah, right. I have a very simple barometer, from the Bible: the Beatitudes. Very few politicians pass that test. The more outspoken they are about their religion, the less likely they are to pass it. Much less the following Woes.
Thanks for posting this, Wil. I’ve been reading your blog since near its inception, but am a lurker at heart. I wrote on my blog today the reasons why I left Facebook 10 days ago. I knew part of that decision means I miss out on the things you post there, but for my own mental health, it needed to go. I don’t know what the solution is to social media, but what it currently is, isn’t it and I want no part of it. I hope you get your account reinstated.
Your blog is always interesting and for someone like myself dealing with PTSD, your site is cathartic and it always makes me think. Thanks for all you do. Your work is appreciated by myself and I’m sure tens of thousands of others.
My local community theater is doing Godspell. I love the music.. grew up on it…. but the last few times I’ve seen the play, I don’t leave it feeling good, but depressed. Imagine how great things would be if conservative Christians actually followed those teachings.
Wil, I’m a Christian. I have no problem with how the person looks in the picture you posted. Jesus can look however He wants, how He looked isn’t important. I’m saddened that you were hurt by people who profess to be Christians, I don’t know if they are or not. I hope you know that Jesus loves you and died for you regardless of whether you believe in Him. I would encourage you to read the Bible and from that consider who Jesus is or isn’t.
As for Facebook, I think America would be better off if we got off social media and talked/debated these issues we have, areas we disagree upon, with grace and humility towards one another. I think ultimately having more regulation of entities like Facebook will fail and be a net negative for society.
Wil, I am with you 100% on this! I am shocked and dismayed that FB actually shut down your account because of that writing, especially when there is so much uglier and more hateful content posted easily and freely all the time. I LOVE it that you turned right around and reposted this excellent piece here so that those of us who don’t do much with FB can also read it and join the discussion. Everything you said is true and right on! There are many of us in recovery from Christianity out here.
Wil Wheaton
I didn’t want to comment in the post in case my sisters see it, so I sent you a private message. I apologize for that, but here’s what I wrote:
Too much history to go into, but this is where I am and probably will be for life:
I am absolutely convinced I will go to Hell and my punishment there will be to watch animal torture and experimentation for eternity. I don’t feel I will ever find peace on this earth, despite being a ‘Christian.’ I’m beyond terrified even though I have prayed and ‘accepted Christ as my savior.’ Discussions with theologists and pastors have only made my fear worsen. And yes, I do suffer from severe clinical depression, and I know this depression (I call it/them my dementors: I can think of nothing better to describe the howling joy depression gets by taking my happiness/peace from me) contributes to this feeling, but my belief goes beyond depression.
This is what ultimately fucked me up: an evangelical pastor once joked about an atheist’s tombstone that read “all dressed up and nowhere to go.” The congregation gave a chuckle, but he went on to say that most atheists or people of other faiths sincerely believe in what they know. They have faith of either knowing that God exists or doesn’t — and how to GET TO GOD. They are sincere. But then he added the five words that have virtually eliminated any semblance of peace or true universal joy:
YOU CAN BE SINCERELY WRONG.
How are we supposed to process this??? What does this mean in terms of ANY faith?? Heartbreak and endless tears and prayers have followed this. It happened 20 years ago.
Obviously, I don’t expect you to respond or even read this, but I wanted to thank you so much for your post. As awful as it is, I feel relief at the knowledge that others feel resentment at what they’ve been brought up to believe.
I don’t know what I believe except for where I’m going in the end.
Know Jesus = know peace?
For me, know religious/right-wing/evangelical Jesus = no peace.
Wishing you continued health and happiness and PEACE.
If you assume an eternal afterlife and an entity who controls what you get, there are two possibilities:
1. God is an abuser. If that’s true, then yes, you may be in for a bad time. But as anyone who knows abusers knows, over time, even God’s most favored will join you in eternal torment.
2. God is not an abuser. If that’s true, then even if you deserve punishment and even if God punishes those deserving of it, your punishment will be finite and you will then experience whatever everyone else does.
As you have no control over whether or not God is an abuser, the best thing you can do is live your life and look after yourself.
If it’s a comfort, the people who told you all this are clearly in the “God is an abuser” camp, so they’re damned if they’re right and only OK if they’re wrong.
Shari Neece. A good and loving god won’t damn you for not being good at “Hide and Seek,” and a Bullying, Nickel-and-Diming- god isn’t worth our worship. Be confident of your worth as a child of God and don’t listen to the fear-talk being whispered in your ear by your personal demons; it’s a lie. Find an effective anti-depressant and a Cognitive Behavior Therapy group or individual therapist. Take a good 20-minute walk in the park, every day. Lastly, if you aren’t already doing so, get involved in service to the world of some sort. It helps to get outside yourself, and you will find that the bit you do to make the outer world a better place, will make your inner world a better place, as well. Make yourself take action, in the order listed, in spite of the weight you are carrying. I promise you that how you are feeling is not an accurate measure of how and what you are as a human soul.
That was really good advice, Michael, and very kind words.
Shari, my dad suffers from bipolar disorder and your fears sound a lot like his. Even with meds and therapy he has a hard time accepting that God loves him. God loves you too, no matter how much your mind may tell you otherwise. God doesn’t love us because we are “good enough” to deserve His love. He loves us because we are His creation. It doesn’t require works or the right kind of life to get saved.
When Jesus was crucified, there were two criminals being crucified beside him. One of them asked Jesus (Luke 23:42-43):
[42] And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” [43] And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
TODAY. Not after the criminal did anything “good” to redeem himself. Not after he prayed a fancy prayer or wore the right clothes or gave enough money. TODAY. All he had to do was ask. If you have asked, Jesus has forgiven. Even if you mess up, you are still forgiven. We are all sinners and not worthy of God’s mercy but He gives it to anyone who asks. Everyone has a different story and different strongholds in their lives. Part of the grace God extends is help giving up those strongholds. Be it greed, lust, anger, whatever. God CAN heal your heart and your mind. I know it’s hard to trust that when you don’t feel it’s true. I am here to tell you it absolutely is true.
God loves you Shari and wants the best for you. Find a good therapist and also see if there may be meds that can help you. If you are on meds and still feeling bad then ask for your meds to be adjusted. As we age our bodies process medications differently. There is ZERO shame in asking for help when you need it. May God guide and direct your path.
Some years ago, two people came to my door. They were from the local Baptist church and wanted to know if I’d be interested in coming to services, etc. I was in a very frank mood that day, apparently, because I replied with: “well, my husband’s an atheist and I was permanently scarred by the church as a child, so you’re barking up the wrong tree.”
I felt a little bad about being rude, but really, it’s the truth (though I also am an atheist these days, I hadn’t quite gotten around to saying it back then, because it’s hard to escape the conditioning that saying so would sent me right to hell, etc). Nothing in my life was more harmful to me than church growing up. We went every Sunday morning and many Sunday nights and Wednesday nights (though that was later). And every Sunday morning, I was spanked for not wanting to wear a dress and trying everything I could to get out of going. I’d be whipped, bodily forced into clothes I hated, driven to a place I hated, told to wipe those tears off my face and smile, and forced to attend lectures on things that clearly made no sense, even to a child. As I got older, I learned not to fight the clothes, though I still hated them. I volunteered to work in the church nursery to get out of service – not because I wanted to help, but because anything was better than going to service. (Of course, I let them think I was just helpful.) But mostly, it was the people. The judgment. The being told something was wrong with me because I didn’t fit the mold of what they wanted me to be. The anger when I asked (true story) why I should worship a god who nearly forced a man to kill his own son just to prove a point (an extremely narcissistic point, at that). So, yeah…wooo, Christianity….that’s a lot to unpack, there.
PS: the way I’ve worded it for decades is that I was raised as a conservative Christian, and it’s taken me a long time to overcome that.
This story sounds somewhat familiar – I was raised going to a Lutheran church by parents who were, respectively, Methodist (both by upbringing), one of whom attended every Sunday, and the other who eventually started going because my brother and I would ask why we had to go if one of our parents didn’t.
I didn’t go through the horrible abuse you did with regards to getting ready to go, being forced into hated clothing and being told to stop crying and put on a happy face. I was fortunate in that way.
I found my solace in working in the sound booth. Met some fellow geeks to talk to, and while the pastor was giving the sermon, we’d be talking computers and technology.
And we saw all of the ugliness that was in the pastoral staff. The infighting. The sniping. The “do as we preach, but not as we do” approach.
It was awful. It was insightful. And it in large part contributed to me becoming an atheist (like many, I went through the “Christian -> Spirituality of some sort -> Atheist” route of getting there).
I find myself constantly amazed that I have to explain to self-professed “Christians” how to emulate their savior. How to be kind, patient, and forgiving. Which really just reinforces for me the idea that it’s not necessary to believe in a deity to be good; I often find that as an atheist, I feel that I’m not being “bribed” by the promise of “eternal salvation” for my good acts. Being good and kind to others is its own reward. I’m not perfect at it (not by a long shot), but I try.
And if there is a deity out there for whom that’s not good enough…so be it. Such a deity isn’t worthy of my devotion, and in my not so humble opinion, isn’t worthy of anyone’s devotion.
I know you’ve already had an absolute tsunami of comments, so I’ll keep this brief. I have circled in and out of Christianity at various times of my life. I tend to be more spiritual than anything else, but do believe in a creator. You know what? That doesn’t matter at all. You are you, with your history and your beliefs, and you (and they) are valid. I’ve taken one tenet of most faiths to heart: Love everyone, and let God do the rest. “God” here, of course, stands in for whatever creative force is believed in, or simply in nothing at all. It’s still valid. My job is to love and help people. The rest isn’t up to me. You have survived, you are strong, and you are using your platform in a way that is valid to you (and many of us, I might add!). Those few haters? They don’t matter. I try to love them, too, but mostly I simply do my best to leave them by the wayside. I can’t understand them, I can’t help them (because they refuse my help), and the best I can do is leave them alone and hope they eventually learn that hate doesn’t work. The main thing here is, humans should be caring for each other, and all the other lives around them. I do, you do, and many others do as well. Just keep being you, and we’ll all keep loving you as you are!
Wil, I am so sorry that your experience with Christianity was so negative for you. I agree that Jesus likely looked like the image you put in your post. I grew up in a part time Catholic family who all went to Catholic schools but left all mention of God and Jesus at church. (I wasn’t sent to Catholic school but did go to catechism classes) We had a family Bible that wasn’t ever brought out unless someone was born, got married, or died. Those announcements were tucked away and forgotten until the next time the Bible was opened to place another announcement in. I grew up thinking that I didn’t really like who God was. Trainwreckery ensued in my life.
As an adult, I bought a Bible to prove someone wrong about something they said to me about marriage. I started reading and asking questions. God wasn’t the angry wrathful entity I grew up thinking He was. Jesus, the son of God…his ministry was only about 3 years, yet MILLIONS of people call on His name in good times and in bad.
Are there people who do terrible things in the name of religion? YES. Not only in Christianity but other religions as well. There have always been bad people, and until Christ returns there will continue to be.
You are correct…Jesus hung out with the outcasts of society. The sinners and the lepers. But he didn’t allow them to wallow in their suffering. He HEALED the lepers, the lame, the hurting. He told the sinners to “go and SIN NO MORE”. He didn’t encourage them to continue on a destructive path and he certainly didn’t hide that there is only one way to Heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. He loves us so much he doesn’t want to see us suffer in our sin.
As for the 10 commandments…not one of us can keep those. It’s literally impossible because we are all fallen. That was why the Jews had the sacrificial system to shed blood for their sins. Jesus came as the ultimate sacrifice so that we in our brokenness could have a relationship with God and not have to shed blood to do so.
It doesn’t matter if you believe this or not. One day EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. He WANTS you to feel his grace and mercy. God loves you more than your earthly father ever could have even if he was a really good dad.
I know your experiences in life have made you bitter towards God because “how could a loving God let me suffer like that?” The truth is I don’t know why bad things happen. I have had plenty of bad things happen even when I feel like I’m doing everything “right”. But if we never had bad things happen, we wouldn’t be drawn to God because we wouldn’t feel like we needed him.
I won’t pretend like I have all of the right words to say or that I know all the answers, because I certainly don’t.
Saying all Christians are bad is like saying all of any one race, religion, gender, etc are bad because you have had or heard about someone else’s bad experiences. Again, there have been many things done wrong in history in the name of religion. Not justifying that. However, the Bible is very clear on sin and the consequences of it. It doesn’t mean people who are Christians are perfect and if they say they are they are liars.
At the end of the day God loves us in all of our faults and flaws and wants us to have the best life we can. Just like a parent who has expectations and rules to keep their children safe from harm’s way. I know some people had terrible parents and I’m so sorry that they had those experiences. A relationship with God…not religion…can heal those wounds. You just need to ask Him. He knows but he wants to hear you say it.
Wil,
I read what you share and can relate in different ways. I am a Catholic, but have seen the person of Jesus morphed to represent a certain political view. I try not to even mention any religious affiliation, but rather listen and respond to the conversation at hand. I really feel that many who say they are Christian have a warped sense of what it means to follow the teachings and example of Jesus.
Continue to share and open up the doors and windows of experience so others will also find a kindred spirit.
I love pondering your thoughts!
Face Fuckbook
Never been judged So Much as I have by ”so called” Christians. *IMO Following the teachings of JC has little if anything to do with any religion.
WIl, I first read your post on FB and just thought, “Yup, he’s right.” When I read it again today, I suddenly felt the sting of memories of being a child, and raised with that same idea that I was under watch all the time, and that Jesus was going to tell on me for everything I did that was a “sin.” As I grew older, though, I began to hear more about who Jesus was in a different way, that he really despised wealth, fought for the poor, healed the sick (even if not actual “HEALING”) befriended beggars, and worked to convince men and women to think of the greater good, and not just themselves. I continued as a member of Catholicism until I was 25, convinced that the “religious right” would somehow die out in light of what I knew.
But no… it did not. As they increasingly infiltrated our political system, violating our standards of the separation of church and state, my own religion also took up the shield now known as the “right wing” of politics. On Easter Sunday of 1981, I attended my last mass as a regular attendee, mainly because the pastor of the parish went on a rampage about who were good and bad Christians. That was it. I walked away/ I honestly couldn’t take that from the people who taught me that I should take care of others. Instead, it became a political movement that repulsed me in ways I never imagined.
I suppose one could blame Jimmy Carter for the first breach of that wall that separated church and state. All he had to say was he was an evangelical Christian, and soon the hate-fueled right-wing termites crawled out to stake their position. False preachers like Falwell, Robertson, Swaggert and so many others who suddenly equated Christianity with being American. Reagan used that support to get himself into the White House, all while he was breaking laws, making deals with Iranians to keep hostages until Jan 21, 1981, using racist ideas in his speeches (“welfare cadillac queens”) and making it OK to discriminate based on horrible ideas that were at the very LEAST un-Christian.
Now, as I look at the level of selfishness embraced by the “christians” of today, I can’t help but think that they will never return to the ideas of what Jesus stood for. The greed and lust for power that is now accepted as “God’s will” will either destroy or divide us permanently. They convinced me that there is no god because what god could allow this to happen, that hundreds of thousands have died from the ignorance, pride, and greed expressed by these “religious leaders.” So now I claim atheism as my “faith.” I will do the things that Jesus taught, not because of fear of god, but for the fear that humanity itself could be wiped from the face of the earth.
I’ll add my voice to the other clergy in the camp of “I’m sorry this happened to you.” While I didn’t experience the level of abuse you did, I completely understand the desire to just leave it all behind, thanks to the vocal sub-section of Christianity that twists the message of Jesus; a message that you clearly understand so much better.
I really appreciate your understanding and clear nuance to know it’s “not all Christians” even as I shutter at that phrase, knowing it too is often used in a diminishing/abusive context.
Thank you for continuing to speak your truth – about depression, about Christianity, about your work and your life. It’s means a lot to me, and I hope the jerks of the world don’t get you down.
So as someone from the branch of Christianity the Dead Milkmen sing about – don’t worry about coloring outside the lines, I have a hard time believing God would send you to hell. And to drop one more reference not because it fits, but because the song is so frickin good, remember the Hold Steady “ I read your Gospel – it moved me to tears – but I couldn’t find the hate and I couldn’t find the fear”; so maybe just raise a toast to St Joe Strummer and keep doing what you’re doing.
Jesus attached himself to a malevolent God. He wanted his father to be a deity that created and damns people to Hell, drowned nearly the entire population of the world, destroyed cities, killed babies, and alllll the other crimes. In the end, Jesus manufactured his resurrection, which led to 2000 years of bad religion and that many more atrocities. Jesus as the embodiment of love and charity is a myth, like the myth of a white Jesus.
Thank you. Your voice is so eloquent.
Wil is right.
Facebook is wrong.
Growing up in the southern Baptist church has left me with a healthy dose of PTSD. Pair that with a few years of conversion therapy and it’s no wonder I literally have panic attacks when confronted with weaponized Christianity. The final straw for me was a couple of failed exorcisms. The only thing the managed to exorcise was my faith.
Facebook’s content-monitoring system (mostly handled by third parties they’ve hired to take it off their hands) is ridiculous. Actual hate speech thrives while they routinely ban people for innocent jokes about hat don’t offend anyone due to a keyword or phrase the AI doesn’t like. You’re lucky to be well-known enough that when you have these issues, hey are publicized. Ordinary people can try to appeal decisions, but a robot just informs us that FB doesn’t bother employ enough actual human beings to make that possible. Or the person who looks at it doesn’t understand the reference anyway (I was banned for the one-word comment “Threepi-hoe!” referring to the Star Wars robot!!!). And I agree with your feeling on religion 100%! And I still love that cheeseball Toy Soldiers flick!
Ironically, comments can’t actually be left here because “akismet” has decided that if you protect your browser safety, you’re “spam”, even if you say nothing objectionable.
This is not correct. You posted the same comment six times in less than four minutes, and the system responded as it is intended to respond.
“Evangelical White Fragility” is a perfect term, I think. I wasn’t raised religious (although I am from Florida, at the very southern edge of the Bible Belt), but my brother and I were allowed to explore religion and spirituality when we were younger so we could decide for ourselves. Fragile White Evangelicals and the bigotry that many of them spew is a major reason why I turned my back on religion at 16 and haven’t looked back since. Much of what white evangelicals believe in goes so much against what Jesus actually taught, and on top of that they’ve been a mission for decades to force biblical law into state and federal law alike, something that the founding fathers of this country would have probably looked upon in disgust. (Not to mention they fought a whole revolution to get out from under the thumb of a king across the ocean who was also head of a church.) They’ve allowed the very greed that Jesus preached against to fill their minds and they’ve used their influence to pass that greed onto others, and I think we’re worse off for it. I think that’s why Millennials like me have been leaving religion in bigger numbers than any other generation: because we’ve seen who’s behind the curtain, pulling the levers.
Thank you, Wil, for your insight. As you can see, you’re not the only one out there who feels this way. You are very much appreciated.
I’m currently on a 30 day Facebook ban – I couldn’t even respond to my family and friends wishing me happy birthday. My heinous violation? Posting a picture of Ghandi with his quote, “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”
I’m not even kidding, I have the screenshot.
Gandhi was a grown man who practiced sleeping with naked young women (including his underage niece) to test his celibacy. He thought women were responsible for and at the mercy of men’s sexual impulses. He was verbally abusive to his wife.
He was also a racist who thought black African people were less than human and referred to them as savages. Sounds like he was not really in a position to throw stones.
While I don’t agree with Gandhi’s lifestyle, I agree that Facebook had no reason to block your account for 30 days. Unfortunately they get to make the call even when it’s unfounded.
I left Facebook in 2014 and it was one of the best things I could have done. Hope things like this will motivate more people to leave Facebook and move their content to other places. Speech should still be free, whether we agree with each other or not.
I was raised by Conservative Republicans who call themselves Christians. As I grew older and realized that these “Christian” Conservative Republicans hated all the people and things they simply didn’t understand, I started looking around. It seemed to be a trend with pretty much every “Christian” Conservative Republican. They don’t want to share (this land or its tax revenue). They don’t want to mingle with anyone who is even slightly different from them (even though, again, that’s exactly what Jesus tells us to do). They cling to conspiracies, and they discard friends and family for being themselves. They also believe that “suffering” is the way to Heaven, and often cause the majority of their own (and their families’ own). When I became and adult and started making better choices (doing things like going to the dentist, getting a college degree, landing a career in media and being an ally to groups of people who are discriminated against), they basically shunned me.
The last time I spoke with either of my parents (if you don’t count comforting my mother at her brother’s funeral) was over 6 years ago. I had rescued the dog that was living with them in deplorable conditions. Her name was Abby. She was a black lab mix, and not only had I seen my father physically strike her, she had a raging skin infection that made her ears feel like thick roast beef, and most of her hair was missing. Not only did they refuse to take her to the vet to address the issue, they “couldn’t find the time” to even give her a comforting bath. So I took her to my house. Got her the vet care she needed. Bathed her with soothing gentle oatmeal shampoo daily. Changed her diet to an allergy-friendly food. For three months she was healthy and happy. Then my parents showed up to my house the day after Christmas, walked in without knocking, and demanded Abby leave with them. She was technically registered with their town as THEIR property, so I didn’t think I had any legal recourse. I was devastated. As they took her away, my father said something unforgivably hurtful toward me. And my fella demanded that my father turn over his copy of our house key.
Abby died not long after that from liver / kidney failure. I can’t stop thinking that I should have tried harder to save her.
And sometimes I think maybe it would have been kinder to let her just stay with them and suffer – than to have shown her a few months of the good life, before letting her go back to that torture.
And they consider themselves Christians. Jesus would be appalled. At my father for his abuse and neglect. And at my mother for going along with every minute of it. So many times in the past my mother not only allowed my father to inflict trauma upon his children and pets, but encouraged and inflicted it herself. There’s so much more that could be said, but it’s draining to think about. I believe in God and Jesus. But I think of them more as good friends I haven’t seen in a while. They exist, I love them, but we’re too busy to really spend time together. And my parents will never know that love.
So many things here hit the nail on the head. Like you, I was presented a Christian view of the world. A White Jesus, a god who was there to punish the wicked and give favor as long as you didn’t break any of their rules. They would look down on me because I wasn’t baptized.They would tell me that the games I played were wrong and came from the devil (Like you, I’m a Old school D&D player), that if I didn’t follow their very narrow view of the world, that I was tainted and a bad person. That hurt… I took a class in High School, a secular class on World Religions. If they would open up their eyes and see what religion is, that the underlying message of any mainstream religion regardless of how many gods may be worshiped by them all have a a common theme. Don’t be a dick. Treat others with respect regardless of anything. But mainly don’t be a dick.
Sometimes, I think what if there is a heaven and when that judgment day comes, and they are all lined up and God looks at them all and says, “Sorry, you missed the message, because you were too busy bashing people.”
Anyway… you’re a cool dude. I am glad I’ve grown up with you and I’m glad you’re still here. Hang in there. You have a right to feel what you want, you live in a place that says you should be able to say what you want constructively. I hope that continues.
I understand that many people have been hurt. The 2 greatest commandments are for us to love others: First, to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength and secondly, to love our neighbor as ourselves. Matthew 22: 36- 40
ALL of the sin and problems that we are encountering are stemming from people’s refusal to obey these two commandments.
A lot of people do not love, and they try to take Jesus Christ and make Him into what they want him to be. They have drawn or painted pictures which are a figment of their imagination.
They cherry picked parts of the Bible and use them out of context for their own gain, and to support their own personal desires. Those people are not true Christians.
They are religious. This does not mean that they have relationship with God or even know God.
The greatest sign that someone is a follower of Jesus Christ is that we love each other (John 13: 35) and that is what we find missing among many supposed Christians.
Love does not cancel out God’s righteous precepts and statutes. Some people call it “love” if you embrace their bad behavior. No, that’s not love. However, bad behavior should be addressed in the spirit of love.
Loving one another doesn’t cancel out the fact that we need to live righteously.
If people loved, they would not harm anyone in any way, shape or form.
There would be no lies, cheating, stealing, murder, rape, spiritual abuse, pedophilia, fraud, pride, misogyny, racism, all sexism, sexual violence and perversion, including beastiality, rebellion, et cetera.
ALL of the sins would not be happening, if people truly practiced love, because love does not harm anyone. If we love God, we obey him.
Some people honestly have not been born again, but they’re just practicing religious routine. People must be born of God, in order to be His. Being born again is a spiritual rebirth. John 3: 1-21. Only the Spirit of God and the power of God will enable a person to live a holy life.
Religious routines and religious rituals don’t mean much of anything.
I consider myself a Christian only because I believe in the Jesus that you described. I don’t care for organized religions because they’re run by idiosyncratic people who only want you to believe what they believe. I believe in the teachings of a kind and merciful Jesus Christ.
I find myself wondering how many people reacted with :”But if you only read this Christian apologist you would see how Jesus must exist and you must Join us.” They’re almost worse than the Borg collective. I sometimes think there must be two Jesuses, one that looks like Max von Sydow and the one you picture above. von Sydow Jesus must be the one who is down with slavery and promises to torture everyone who doesn’t toe the mark for eternity. Doesn’t matter much to me, I think they’re both fables.
Live long and prosper.
This is a great post. It makes me think of this from Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It also makes me think of what it says in the Bible about people drawing near to God with their lips, but their hearts are far from him.
I can certainly understand where you are coming from. I am a Christian (Eastern Orthodox) but cannot for the life of me recognize the Jesus that I see so many talk about. It is a Jesus created in their own image. Jesus wasn’t political, he hated hypocrisy and I don’t believe for one iota that if Jesus visited America today that he would be hanging out at country clubs, appearing on Fox News or appearing on TV with a televangelist. He would be with those that society looks down upon. Was Jesus white? I have no idea. I think that people in general concentrate too much on looks and not enough on substance. So much of what Jesus taught would make the world a better place. Judge not, love one another, let he who is without sin cast the first stone etc;
Wil, just know that the Jesus you were exposed to as a youth is not the real Jesus. I am sad that you had to go through that. I have learned that whenever there is something important in a person’s life, society will twist it and try and use it to make money. I suspect that if Jesus visited America today you would find he agrees with a lot of what you wrote.
Truth on the most part. We as human beings when seeing the highlighted message ignore or let go of finer details which that message entails. You’re on point, my friend.