72 thoughts on “When public health becomes a casualty of the right-wing culture war, innocent people will die.”

1. Do any of these people really deserve to die? Even up to, and including Drumpfelstiltskin himself? I just hope that the world does pivot away from madness, and that whatever really happens, we can finally get some measure of sanity back in the Anglophone world some time soon.

2. I totally agree with you, but if I got the story straight, Dr. Oz wasn’t really saying that he was willing to have children, specifically, die. Rather, he was talking about the effect of opening schools on the general death rate. Apparently there has been some talk from more reliable sources about school closures having a relatively small statistical effect on our situation and perhaps being not as helpful as we thought. (Which doesn’t mean we should reopen schools anytime soon.)

   I’m not defending this man, who has sadly plummeted from being a real medical authority to as you say, a grifter, but just trying to increase accuracy.

3. This is the pro-life party for you, on fox news, saying that two or three percent of school children dying if we send them back to school now, is acceptable. A year from now, they’ll deny that it was ever said, or that they would have ever been OK with it.

4. Whenever challenged, I always reply with “You first.”

5. It was scary to see how fear can trigger people to react the way they did in Michigan. Unfortunately Governor Whitmer has been going overboard with some of her rhetoric about only going out for grocery shopping, exercise or for medical visits. She banned going into certain areas of big-box stores or getting take out and required all workers who are not “necessary to sustain or protect life” to stay home. The fact that the conservatives are taking advantage of these people’s angst is worrying as Michigan could go Republican again if enough voters turn. I’m grateful that Governor Newsom is using common sense in his stay-at-home decisions.

   1. She hasn’t gone overboard at all. We are third in the US in number of cases, so hard action is warranted, and btw… takeout is not banned.

      1. I disagree. She has gone overboard at all.

         1. “…only going out for grocery shopping, exercise or for medical visits.” You mean, like we all should be doing? That’s not overboard. Not even a little bit. That’s common sense.

6. Well said, Wil. Those people terrify me with their ignorance, lack of concern for others, and their fanaticism.

7. I agree with all of this. The only problem is that the cultists might take some sane folks with them.

   1. That’s exactly their goal.

8. It’s like a whole bunch of people watched contagion and thought jude law was the hero.

   1. There always seems to be some fraction of the audience hardwired to side with whoever’s closest to a story’s actual villain, isn’t there?

9. Well, I cannot listen to the news anymore, even my favorite NPR crashes the realityof all this into my life too much. The up side is I am loving the narration of The Last Emperox a great deal as it fills in what use to be my NPR addiction.

   1. I’m with you on this 100%. I gave up news a few years ago and it’s made a real difference for me!

10. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️

11. Well said. I’m old, 74, and in good health I don’t want to die nor do I want my family and friends to die. I know we all will go one but I don’t want it to be from catching a disease that can be prevented. Also I don’t want to die for the GOP so they can make money. We need a real leader with compassion, vision,, and smarts. November 2020 maybe we’ll get one.

12. You seem to have a lot of fear Wil.
    Whatever the situation and however actually bad it may be, fear is never the answer.
    I hope you stop feeling terrified soon.

    1. What about if the question is what band did John Belushi recommend for SNL that then got banned from NBC?

13. I wonder if there’s any way to participate in a nation-wide strike in response? I suppose the organization for such an event simply doesn’t exist. I’m just going to have to cross my fingers and hope that when infection-rates rise again (and that’s unavoidable) it won’t be so much that hospitals get overrun.

    1. That’s a good idea! Some healthcare workers in Michigan are already walking off the job and are striking because so so many of them are getting covid they say because they don’t have enough PPE.

14. First, thanks for linking to the Freep – one of our few trustworthy news sources. This “trump rally” (ahem, protest?) was put on by the Michigan Conservative something or other… and I’m lucky enough to live in a liberal bubble where none of my family or friends were participating. It has sparked a lot of discussion though. We are home, we have been home for weeks – everyone I am close with has been home for weeks.
    And Whitmer is on top of things doing a great job – it was working. This week the number of new cases started to drop. Plenty of men don’t like to be told what to do by a woman.
    Comparing her to Hitler? What the actual fuck.
    Saying she’s the worst governor ever? Do you even remember the one we had last – you know, the guy who gave lead poisoning to an entire city? Fuckkk.
    One of my good friends is a nurse in the ICU in the ER near Wayne county – and he says the cases are exploding. It’s bad. He’s on social media asking for goggles, face masks, anything they can use. It’s particularly hitting older male african-americans. Overweight, hypertension, diabetes. Unfortunately it hits the poor harder than most, so cases are exploding inside Detroit.
    Why is Michigan this way? The auto industry.
    Read Hillbilly Elegy and it will give you a picture. Lots of good old southern boys looking for jobs came up from Tennessee, Kentucky, and the like and worked in the auto plants and then had kids and their kids had kids… My awful racist grandparents were racist hillbilly implants and so some of my family is like them and some of my family is not. You can guess who I keep in touch with.
    Anyway, lots of those hillbilly kids and grandkids took after their grandparents. Michigan is 50% forest and more than 11,000 lakes. Hunting and fishing is a $2 billion dollar industry. There’s a lot of rural good ol’ boys who support this trumpian garbage.
    It started as a pissing match when the governor placed an order against boating, buying garden supplies in stores over 50,000 sq feet, etc.. you can read the thing, it’s out there. Anyway, folks … It’s April. Weather here is notoriously bi-polar as fuck in April. It was 70 degrees last week and yesterday it snowed 2 inches, immediately melted, then it was sunny, and then it snowed again. It melted too.
    It’s not boating season. It’s not safe to garden outdoors until Mother’s day AT MINIMUM. You can buy your shit at any local mom-n-pop garden store, they are on every corner. Calm the fuck down and wait it out. I work in the travel industry, trust me I get it. (BUT MAH FREEDUMS!). The more we stay home the faster this will go.
    Sorry, this sucks for everyone, (you try homeschooling kindergarten twins and a 4th grader) but that “protest” was stupid.

    1. WOW! Such vitriol from a fellow Michigander! I’m not sure I could muster up that much hate for any other human! I’ve had many years of therapy though so that’s probably why 😝. It cost me a ton of money but it was worth it to have serenity and peace. Hatred takes up a lot of bandwidth I needed to think and do charitable things which makes me so much happier! I grew up in the Detroit area but haven’t lived there for 10 years thank God! All my family’s still there and some of them are in critical industries and can’t shelter in place by law. The ones in healthcare are a bit irritated that they work hard and need to be able to function somewhat normally to relieve stress or at least not to add to it with navigating restrictions. And honestly, they’re confident in the personal protective equipment – I guess they’d have to be to do that work – so they think people should be able to go about their business with masks for the most part. Some of them are upset that Detroit has been run by Democrats for like a hundred years and they’ve never made anything better for the citizens and they really deserve it.

       p.s. my brother-in-law works for GM and he’s not at all a hillbilly! 🤣

       1. I work closely with healthcare workers, my family are healthcare workers and my prior career was in healthcare work and I call complete bullshit on your story. That or your healthcare workers haven’t dealt with a full surge yet.

          1. My sister, sister-in-laws, nieces, and friends go to work every day with proper PPE but do not practice social distancing at all. As a matter of fact some of them are considering traveling to NY to help where there are 200,000+ more cases than in MI.

       2. Oh, one person you know works for GM and is not a hillbilly. Mmmkay. https://imgur.com/u2djWwz

          1. My brother-in-law actually does work for GM Flint but the plant is shut down right now (for trucks anyway. I hear they may be producing ventilators there now).
             I was trying to be funny and reinforce your assertion by saying I know one guy in the auto industry who’s not a hillbilly!! But of course I know and worked with hundreds of people in MI in the auto industry. I worked in validation engineering at Cadillac when I was young (in administration). They used to test cars at the Milford Proving Grounds and our engineers would develop fixes for the things that went wrong during testing. I really never thought of them as hillbillies though.

             I realize I’m unnecessarily verbose lately! I’m going stir crazy 😜. I haven’t been able to expend any energy watching my insanely smart and beautiful 😜🙄😜 9 month old granddaughter because I had to have a covid test and won’t have results for 3 to 4 days.

       3. I recognized that hate in Mimi’s post from years of my own. I was just trying to be honest about my mental health journey and it took 20 years and a lot of work in therapy to reduce so much hate that was taking up too much of my time and energy.

          1. I wasn’t talking about how nice she is to other people. And I’m sorry I didn’t get that her family was trying to kill her. I was talking about her own anger. Wil has been talking about his journey through issues he has with his childhood and family. I had a similar experience and the vitriol I had towards people from my childhood was eating up all my bandwidth. I was spending too much time and energy on people who 1. weren’t really affected by my anger and 2. weren’t worth my time. I started following Wil years ago because of his involvement with NAMI (and it doesn’t hurt that he’s a nerd like me and my husband!). So I guess I’m in tune with stuff related to depression/anxiety and was just saying that there is light at the end of the tunnel and he and others with those issues will come to feel better and less anxious and depressed in time, like me.

       4. I was laying out the facts. All of that is true. My dialogue is spicy. These people should make you angry. https://imgur.com/tvpATck

15. I’m really saddened by the people who never seemed to want any of the restrictions – as if everything would be completely normal. I know there will always be those people who think it’s all fake or over-hyped, but I mean I’m surprised how widespread the denial is. I had a professional contact in New York who was bragging about how life hadn’t changed there and everyone was still on the subways and all the worry was overblown and the restrictions Cuomo was putting in place were unnecessary – that was about a month ago. It’s so unfortunate. I’m in Las Vegas and our primary economy is shut down and probably won’t get back up to full speed for quite some time – probably not until a vaccine. Still most people here are supportive – those are those who aren’t, but mostly I’ve seen adherence and support and that’s with thousands out of work and tons of gig workers and performers not getting anything. Our numbers have been kept fiarly low by the restrictions and most people are glad about that. I’m grateful because it’s kind of terrifying during a pandemic to be in a place where thousands of visitors are coming in from all over the world every day, but it was stopped at great hardship to businesses.

    Looking at the guidelines just put out, I think they’re reasonable if implemented correctly and not too soon. I mean there is no reason at all to be talking about anything prior to May 1. I would think after that, but I am someone who still has a full time job that I can do from home as does my husband. We’re able to make our payments and get food with little problems right now. I’m so grateful for that. I haven’t complained, and won’t complain, for one second about being bored, not being able to go out, or anything.

    I wish arguments would be more forward thinking. Society needs to change in some ways and there are a lot of conservatives who are of course against that. They can only look at “getting back to normal.” Normal isn’t what it used to be and I don’t think it ever should just go back as if nothing happened. We can make changes for the better for everyone. We don’t have to keep doing things the same way just because that’s the way it was always done before – that is one of the stupidest reasons for anything.

    1. Some may argue that Las Vegas is non-essential altogether but not me of course – I got married there! 😝. Also, some people are looking at a virus that didn’t even start in the US so politically here. I’ve heard people talking about the negligence and incompetence of the leadership of the states with the highest number of cases! (4 D, 1 R). We’re all human beings. Everyone’s in this together people!

       1. Well, that’s true. I got married here long before I moved here, which was only 2 years ago. Certainly this has made people consider what is essential and not. But, a lot of people would say football is not essential and others would say it absolutely is. We could easily all live very boring lives and that would be a lot less risky. That being said, I love going to movies in theaters, but I don’t think I will for a very long time, even after they open. Same for restaurants. I’m not missing those really, but I know some people are.

          Honestly Las Vegas has become like a small town without the casinos. There’s less drunk driving, violence etc. But we wouldn’t have the Raiders coming here if it wasn’t for the stretch of huge casinos that bring in millions of people. Kind of strange.

16. The sad thing is, they won’t understand it when at some point the guillotine comes out, because no matter how hard we resist that impulse, it looks like that in the end that is the only thing the rich and powerful understand.

    1. It’s actually their wallet! I’ve been looking at the Fortune 100 and they keep an awful lot of their money for themselves! Bezos, Gates, Buffet, Page, Brin, Zuckerberg . . . they could fund some of our government programs on their own!

17. I’m kiwi – NZ has control of covid numbers – and I live in the UK – which doesn’t even count covid deaths outside of hospitals. Live in your bubble – put your lives, and the lives on your neighbours first. The economy can only survive with those alive! If a good chunk of us are dead, the economy doesn’t survive

18. I am just thankful I am Canadian.
    I honestly want to pluck all you wonderful Americans up and keep you safe while the storm lasts.
    We have our own issues for sure …. no one country is perfect or handling this without friction and confusion and frustration…
    However, our health officer in British Columbia at every daily address reminds us to be kind to each other and to take care of our mental health and stay connected while being physically distant from the ones we love.
    Dr. Bonnie Henry has become a local hero and people have literally written songs about her and there are t-shirts with her face on them…. we are thankful for those in positions of authority because we trust them….
    The orange man makes cringe.

    1. My grandmother was from Lindsey which is around Toronto. I grew up in metro-Detroit and when we were kids we used to go to Windsor every weekend because the drinking age was 19 and ours was 21! We used to be able to go back and forth over the border without even a driver’s license! I used to work with many Canadians in Detroit. My family in healthcare still does. I hope I’m not being rude to disclose that many of the Canadians working in Detroit/Michigan say that American healthcare is better.

       1. Not rude.
          I agree there are aspects of American health care that are amazing such as shorter wait times on elective surgery if you have benefits, but what if you don’t?
          I personally love the fact that my country extends Health care to everyone who needs it regardless of if they are able to maintain employment or pay for extended benefits.
          I have had two children and a pretty Major sinus surgery that I never had to worry about if I could or couldn’t afford the hospital stay or for an emergency complication should they arise.
          There are pros and cons of each system for sure…
          but if I get covid-19 I can call my dr and see her without worrying about whether my copay covers it and if I need a ventilator I won’t have to worry about who is going to pay for it because my life is valued by my country enough that they will do their best to save me regardless of cost.
          I want Obama back, lol…. Biden is the next best thing for you all … in my humble opinion…
          I’m not trying to stir the pot… I just have a constant pit in my stomach regarding those who have lost their jobs and who are going to need medical help in America. No one should be profiting off this disastrous situation – and I recognize that’s not how the world works…
          I just wish it were.

19. One more bit of praise for Canadian officials to add: specifically to the name and person and expertise of Dr. Theresa Tam, our federal chief medical officer of health. She and her team have been doing solid work from the moment they got the go-call.

    1. Agreed!

20. Word.

21. Is there though? Is there really more of us than there is of them? As I sit here unemployed because of all of this. As I sit here and watch the life I sacrificed so much for go down the tubes, I can’t see a light at the end of the tunnel. I can’t see a scenario that works out for science and rationality and truth. I can’t see a future that doesn’t end up with us having four more years, if not more, of this ass-hat as president. I just can’t find any hope in all of this. I am sorry. I just can’t.

    1. I think the only hope we can have right now is to come out of this alive. And then do what we have to to start over again. It’s gonna suck, big time, but being alive…I’d much rather that than suffocate to death.

    2. You sound like me when I’m having an episode and my brain is distorting my thinking. NAMI is having some great online support groups. Talk it out with people who are well right now and it will really help!

       1. When I say ‘you’ here, I meant David.

    3. No matter what, even if we get Trump out of office, it will take longer than four years to make up the damage that him and the alt-right/religious fundamentals did. They have come out from under a rock and I suspect for the rest of my life (30-40 years) I will be cleaning this up and hoping I don’t get lynched as a super liberal transgender woman.

       Even so, and even though I have no children (and won’t) of my own, I owe the future to not give up. Look at Germany compared to Nazi Germany, it can change (although you have to be ever vigilant). Just sadly I don’t see it becoming good again until I am old, or dead.

22. I’m so tired of the idiocy. The callous flippancy about deaths. The absolute disregard for people in need. The constant taking for themselves. How do these people live with themselves?? I know history will not show them in a favorable light, but who cares? NOW is what’s important. Take those billions of dollars and save us. We could continue being safe AND support ourselves until this is over. How freaking hard is that to do?? Obviously none of them were taught to share as children. I’m so disgusted I don’t even have the energy to cry anymore.

23. The only thing I can say at this point is, Drumpf is a murderer, along with every other republican at this point who chose not to impeach and remove him when they had the chance, and they have blood on their hands. I hope they get their a$$es handed to them in November, and then they are all prosecuted for murder. And no republican appointed judge should be allowed to preside over any trial. Sorry for the rant. Stay home, and stay safe, everybody!

24. I was watching the marches with horror… and also with a big relief that I live in the UK… with just one central goverment… yes the 4 countries do have seperate local governments but when the PM says this is what we will do they do it… no politics are involved at all… I mean refusing to send help to senators who didn’t back him!!! really!!! that is so childish!

    1. Boris Johnson is a genius and should always be followed.

25. I live in the UK, but my family lives in California and my best friend in Seattle, and I am just so grateful that their local governments acted quickly and responsibly before it was too late to prevent the horrors we are seeing (and will continue to see) in other states. I only wish that the UK had acted as decisively, or at least informed the public of the likely trajectory of the disease, early on instead of dicking around with this whole “herd immunity” business. Now we have health care workers dying because they lack protective equipment, and there aren’t enough tests even to cover health care workers plus care home (retirement home) workers, much less the general public. It’s criminal.

26. I didn’t vote for Trump but I have to say I’m a little freaked out that some people think the crisis the US is in now has to do with him and politics. The virus originated in a far left country that wasn’t honest and forthcoming about it I’ve read. Now there are less than two dozen countries left without a single case of the virus which is probably high because all countries may not be reporting accurately. Every type of government, governing political party, and economic system has numerous cases of the virus at this point. Far left-communist, socialist and far right-fascist, monarchist seem to be in the same boat.

    We are very fortunate that my husband is able to work mostly from home even though he’s in a critical infrastructure industry. You may be on a bit of an island in LA because a large percentage of your population may have enough money stockpiled that they don’t have to work as much. Way more people than you may realize are not staying home however.

    Millions and millions are supporting our privileged lifestyle and we wouldn’t even notice unless suddenly we didn’t have food or medicine, healthcare, electricity, water, air conditioning, phones, computers, internet, gaming, tv, Netflix . . . and all the equipment manufacturing, operations, repair, and transportation people it takes to run those services. There’s not a lot of advocacy for those people to stay home and maybe because most don’t live in affluent areas (or we just want to keep the non-essential as well as the essential parts of our lifestyles).
    Some companies are now lining their and their shareholders pockets like never before – technology, entertainment, gaming, and delivery services to name a few!

    I have family in Michigan and my 76 year old mother and 85 year old aunt aren’t allowed to have their lawn mowed. Which isn’t that big of a deal but their lawn guys are outside and don’t come into contact with anyone else. Plus, I don’t know what their lawn guys are doing for money now. And my sister is an OT in nursing homes working with some covid patients and she gets upset when she’s already exhausted and stops at an approved essential store (wearing the proper personal protective equipment) and she has to figure out what she’s allowed to buy – not paint for a project with her son who’s off school and who’s idol hands are the devil’s workshop. And not flowers for our granny who has covid19. A lot of policies may sound great especially to outsiders but they’re not so great in practice. I think she should be able to buy anything she wants. (they can still buy alcohol, marijuana, and lottery tickets, so that’s good 😝😝😝)

    I didn’t vote for Trump but I’m sorry to say the Democrats in city, county, and state government in Michigan didn’t protect their citizens (in NY either).

    1. FYI Michigan is a state where we can have a 65 degree sunny day one day and wake up to snow the next. Especially this time of year. Our lawn services sometimes can start mowing very early and then we might have a patch of cold weather. I live in mid-Michigan and my lawn already needs to be mowed. It has been warm enough for people to be out in t-shirts and shorts a few times. Meanwhile places in the upper peninsula probably still have snow. So she really wasn’t trolling.

       1. I mentioned their cities because if you’re in southern Ontario you probably know where they are.

    2. I’m not exactly sure what that means. But I asked my family why they didn’t tell me it snowed! And it’s snowing there today!! My elderly aunt lives in Clinton Twp, my mom is in St Clair Shores, and my granny who has covid by the way lives in Harper Woods. They told me last week their tulips were blooming! You just never know there! I live far from them so I can only help out by funding some things. They told me they couldn’t get their lawns cut for the duration of the stay at home order. They are elderly and they have time to think and get anxious about things. As I posted previously, not having their lawn cut is not a big deal to me (to them it is, they’re elderly, cut them some slack). But I wondered what their lawn guys are doing for money and I’ll probably send them some anyway. So if this all means that I’m a troller then I guess I own it!!

27. Stephanie that is a lie! Milwaukee just has a 4 year old tested positive for Corvid-19 and she is in the hospital fighting for her life ! Young children are not immune! They are getting Corvid-19 and dying! One of my mom’s is a Marquette University trained Nurse Army Major Veteran called time the Gulf War. My family work in Western Medicine, lots of Veterans, are from hereditary chief John Konkapot bloodline, and Traditional Blood Lines. I spent 10 years in the Sciences. I am telling you the truth about the children. They are not immune that is a lie! I am a direct descendant of Medicine people from my tribe.

28. Well call me profoundly ignorant.

    I was at the protest because while I am fortunate that I can still work, about half of my friends and family are either laid off, furloughed, or have lost their jobs completely. Several small business owners I know are out of business and may need to shut down permanently because they are considered “non-essential”. These are real people with families and expenses that need to be taken care of because kids need to eat and mortgages or rent still need to be paid. Still need electricity, especially since many people are stuck at home til this is over.

    It’s easy for people who aren’t in a position like that to pass judgement on others. Especially when the news media plays so far to the left that they find the worst possible person/people to “represent” a group on the news. Many of the people I saw (from inside my vehicle because that was what was requested by the organizers of the event) were driving their vehicles with signs with their individual points of view. Some were off topic (Trump supporters, open carry supporters, confederate flag carriers, etc) but the majority were people who just want to go back to work and have the ability to make decisions about their own lives without heavy handed government oversight.

    FYI the hospital entrance at Sparrow Hospital in Lansing was not blocked, there were 3 empty lanes for traffic no intersections were blocked, and police were all over directing traffic as needed. But the news doesn’t want you to see that.

    This isn’t about getting to buy paint and seeds (we CAN buy seeds FYI). It’s about the asinine regulations the governor has put in place now. Most people were annoyed before her newest mandate but generally begrudgingly followed the recommendations. It was when her confusing list of not making any sense and frankly far overstepping our rights that people got angry.

    In Michigan, I can take my kayak out on the water, but not a motorized boat. Why? Because I might need to go to the gas station to get gas for my motorized boat. But I am allowed to drive in my car, which also uses gas. Please note I can drive my car to an outdoor place for outdoor activity (which most people with kayaks would also need to do).

    In Michigan I can go to Home Depot and buy drywall but not paint. So I can start a project but not finish it. I can’t buy carpet or flooring. I can also buy a lawnmower but I am not allowed to pay someone to mow my lawn (even though most lawn services don’t even come in contact with home owners)

    I can buy marijuana, alcohol, and lottery tickets but I can’t buy a houseplant in the garden section of a large store. I can grocery shop there but certain sections are cordoned off because they are non-essential. That being said, I can make a trip across town to a different business and buy things the big stores can’t sell anymore but smaller stores can. Going to multiple stores instead of just getting what I need in one place makes perfect sense.

    I can go to the park with my friend but I can’t go to my friend’s house and see them even if practicing social distancing. Even if we were standing OUTSIDE 6ft apart with MASKS ON. If I own a cabin up North I can’t go there, but people can travel here from out of state to visit their second home. This stuff just does NOT make sense. It’s as if our governor has a list and she just threw darts to decide what to keep and what to get rid of.

    People are hurting and just want to work to support their family. They don’t want to be on welfare and/or unemployment (which is nearly impossible to sign up for because tens of thousands of people are trying signup for these “benefits” and crashing the systems). Never mind the negative economic impact on our state by adding millions of dollars of additional support for people to an already strained budget. While I agree that some things aren’t “essential” it should be up to the people doing business to decide that. If a person wants to operate their business they should be allowed to take that risk. Of course liberals will say “but social distancing” and “they don’t have the right to endanger my family because what if they are sick and go somewhere and someone ends up sick?” Well friends, news flash…going to the store for groceries could potentially make you sick. Ordering takeout or getting you Uber Eats delivered could potentially make you sick. Getting gas at the gas station could potentially make you sick. Picking up your fave alcoholic beverage or your medical marijuana could potentially make you sick. (FYI I have nothing against alcohol or marijuana, you are adults and should be free to make your own decisions on what you put in your body) Do I believe someone who is sick should stay home? Of course. Do I believe someone who is vulnerable should stay home? Again yes. Do I believe that the government should tell us under what circumstances we can leave our homes and what we can and can’t buy while we are out? Definitely not. Do I believe that the government has the right to pick and choose which of my friends’ businesses are essential and which are not? Absolutely not.

    Of course the news doesn’t want you to know that side of the story because it doesn’t play as well as “profoundly ignorant people in Michigan defy the stay at home order to protest”.

    Sorry not sorry for the rant. This profoundly ignorant person is going to head back to my sewing table to work on some more face masks that are sewn from materials I paid for out of my own pocket (ordered online and shipped when necessary, otherwise ordered from a store and picked up curbside in case you were wondering). After this profoundly ignorant person is done spending hours sewing the masks, I will wash them and carefully place them in ziplock baggies to keep them as clean and germ free as possible and give them away for free to the staff at a hospital where I (thankfully still) work to save the N95 masks for those working directly with patients. So far I have been able to sew about 80 masks. After that I will call my parents and in-laws whom I haven’t seen in well over a month because of social distancing. Also my adult children who I haven’t seen because of social distancing either. Then maybe see if anyone else from my church needs financial help because I am blessed to still have an income while many others don’t. Thankfully I have already been able to help a few people and am able to help a few more.

    I have been practicing social distancing and not going places unless I need to buy food or supplies. Not all protestors and/or conservatives are selfish or ignorant. Some of us are kind and generous AND care about the economy and well-being of our fellow humans. We also care about the rights we have as citizens of the United States and want to make sure they aren’t trampled on. You don’t have to agree with me. You can call me names and think I’m stupid or whatever other name you can conceive. And I will fight for your right to do so. Because in the end this isn’t about which side you are on. It’s about people having the right to live in a way that THEY choose and not how the government tells them they have to.

    1. You are ignorant, if your working causes the possibility of someone else dying, your working shouldn’t take priority.

       I can tell you aren’t truly Christian, because I can tell you what Jesus would say. He would say sit your ass back down and don’t endanger others. It is perfect though, you sum yourself up when you say you care about things and you mentioned economy before you said humans. Fuck you you selfish prick.

       1. What you said to Julie was uncalled for. She works in a hospital and is providing other colleagues with additional PPE with her own money. She is putting her life on the line just going in every day. I’m SURE someone from above sent the healthcare workers and all other critical infrastructure people here to help and definitely NOT to sit their asses down. Way more people than you realize are brave and not staying home sitting on their buts. By law they have to work to keep the rest of us healthy and with our creature comforts. They are running toward the danger while the rest if us are running to our homes with our legs between our legs. I have family there in healthcare and believe me they weren’t made to stay down.

       2. You realize without a working economy people can’t survive. So it seems that having an economy in which people can take care of their needs would be a most humane thing. People falling into an overwhelming depression because they have lost everything due to the crashing economy and killing themselves is a real threat. Addicts in recovery are far more likely to relapse when isolated from others. Not being able to provide food for their families is a real threat to families. Many people where I live barely were getting by before and now it’s even worse. But let’s not worry about the guy who makes his living mowing lawns all season and now isn’t allowed. Or the girl who just spent thousands going to cosmetology school only to be denied the opportunity to work if she wants to. I’m not saying businesses should be forced to operate if they don’t want to. If they want to, they should be able to stay open. There is no reason those places would be any more dangerous for people than the grocery store, marijuana dispensaries, liquor stores, or gas stations. Picking up takeout or getting food delivered could be just as risky. If people decide to go to those places knowing there is a potential for them to get sick, that should be on them. That’s called taking personal responsibility.

          That doesn’t even take into account the tens or maybe hundreds of millions of dollars in debt this will strap onto the backs of every man, woman, and child in our country. Assuming you pay taxes, this affects you and everyone you know as well. Higher taxes are passed onto us twice…as consumers by way of higher prices and by way of higher personal and/or business taxes. Of course those things don’t mean anything to you apparently and you are cool with those consequences occurring. However, I always have and always will believe that people have the right to provide for their family and work if at all possible. Most reasonable people are happy to support taking precautions to help protect public health. And you are free to stay home if you feel it is the best choice for you and your family. I hardly go anywhere unless I have to and take precautions to protect myself and my family as well as others when I am out in case I happen to be a carrier of coronavirus. I haven’t had so much as a sniffle in well over a year and my hands are practically raw from washing and using hand sanitizer when I can’t wash. I haven’t been to my church since this stay at home started even though I technically can. My family and I watch at home because two of the people who do our online service have vulnerable children (who haven’t been to the church but to prevent the possibility of their parents taking something home on their skin or clothes). I collect my mail about once a week from my PO Box because it’s not necessary to go there daily. We have to have bottled water for drinking and cooking so I do have to go to the grocery store once a week to get my 2 cases of water and other food supplies, but I don’t just browse around the store. I pick up what I need and go home. I would do curbside pickup but those services here are 3 or more weeks out and frankly we can’t go that long especially with restrictions on purchases and nowhere to store excess amounts of food. So clearly I’m all about endangering others.
          🙄

          I realize there are people out there that aren’t being as cautious as I am…and people who are more cautious. That has always been the case and always will be.

          I really enjoyed your comments on my Christianity as well. Super original. You are clearly hostile to anyone who believes differently than you. I don’t know if that would be the particular language Jesus would use, but if that’s the best you could muster up that’s fine. Jesus knows my heart and He knows yours. He died on the cross for your sins and mine. I will continue to try to help people in need the best I can and you continue to keep doing whatever you feel is best for you and your family because it is your right to do so.

          1. That doesn’t even take into account the tens or maybe hundreds of millions of dollars in debt this will strap onto the backs of every man, woman, and child in our country.

             Trump and his allies added trillions to the debt when they gave massive and unnecessary tax breaks to the 1%. Trump’s supporters didn’t seem to care about the debt then, and it’s real weird that they suddenly care about it, now.

             I hardly go anywhere unless I have to and take precautions to protect myself and my family as well as others when I am out in case I happen to be a carrier of coronavirus

             Thank you for staying home, being careful, and making a sacrifice for your fellow humans. It’s going to take great personal sacrifice and coordinated, community action to get us all through this. And don’t worry about the debt; we have the money and the ability to address that. We just need the leadership to take the tax burden off the middle class and the poor, and shift it to the 1% who can absolutely afford it.

             1. I was looking at the Forbes Too 400 and saw that Trump isn’t even in the top 275 ! He’s 276! We’ve been barking up the wrong tree with that one! The top 10 is who we should be hitting up to fund more of the government. In order from highest to lowest net worth: Bezos, Gates, Buffet, Zuckerberg, Ellison, Page, Brin, Bloomberg, Ballmer, Koch. I think (I’ll have to do more research) but 7 out of 10 of these guys are Democrats so they need to be better examples and put more money where their mouths are! Plus, they will all be increasing their revenues dramatically during this crisis – technology and delivery services (and entertainment) are making tons right now!

             2. Wil- thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your thoughtful and respectful response. I know this is something you and I disagree on but are both passionate about. Also I may or may not have slightly fangirled since I don’t often see you reply to comments directly. 14 year old me just swooned a little. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Okay 45 year old me is now back on topic….

                Since you referenced mostly economic issues I will try to stick with those.

                I have to say my personal economic situation improved greatly once Trump was elected. Like almost immediately after he took office. This was the case for a great many of my friends and family as well. Existential growth in business across the board. I have a hard time thinking it was a coincidence. I am not a fan of a lot of things Trump has said/done so please believe me when I say I don’t worship Trump in any way. Just stating a fact about our personal experience with the recent economy.

                That being said…I don’t believe anyone, regardless of economic status, should be forced to pay income taxes. Believing that someone, simply because they are super rich, somehow owes a higher percentage based on their wealth is ludicrous. I don’t know how to fix the National Debt and I hate that we have it looming over our heads. It is also not lost on me that our current president is part of the problem. The debt, however, is largely in part to our broken system. Throwing more money at government run programs is not the answer. Forcing someone against their will to give up any money they earn is akin to theft. It’s just legal because the government says it’s ok if they do it.

                Do I believe if you have the ability to help others you should? Yes, if you choose to do so and in whatever capacity you choose to do it.

                Do I think people are obligated to help others? No. While it is nice to do it should be voluntary.

                Do I believe the idea of caring for the needy is good? You better believe it. How do you decide who is needy and who isn’t though?

                Do I believe if you have any way to work to support yourself you should? Yes!

                Should the government be able to take money from me or anyone else against our will even if we can “afford” it? NO.

                We have been broke. Like “do we feed our kids or pay our mortgage this month?” broke. We know what it’s like to struggle and wonder how we were going to get through. We never thought “gee, all these super rich people should be helping us.” Or “the government should be taking care of us.” We thought “what can we do to get to a better place financially?” So we worked multiple jobs at a time and sacrificed and clawed our way out. It wasn’t easy and took years. Lots of literal blood, sweat, and tears. We still aren’t wealthy…we are working class people who have a ways to go before we make middle class status. As our financial situation has improved, we feel God has blessed our family we try to be a blessing to others whenever we can. We give because we choose to, not because we are being forced to.

                Stealing from the rich to give to the poor doesn’t solve their problems. If anything it creates more. We see people who are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation welfare recipients. There is no reason it should be that way. Throwing money at people hasn’t helped. All the programs waste money and don’t really encourage the people receiving services to change their situation. When you make more staying home and you get great health insurance why work for someone? This problem is driven by government mismanagement. Why should the government be allowed to take a person’s money against their will and then waste it?

                If the super rich got together and said “hey let’s figure out how to help these families out of our own pockets” and then came up with a plan for better schools or ways to help people start new businesses or anything else that would give the disadvantaged some help, that would be awesome. However, it shouldn’t be run by the government and it definitely shouldn’t be forced upon people to fund it even if they are billionaires and wouldn’t miss the money.

                If it were feasible, I would say end the government altogether. Obviously don’t just throw people out on the streets with no path to follow, but with proper planning people could be equipped to step up to the plate. It would cause people to figure out how to take personal responsibility, something that is increasingly rare in society. When someone works for something, they take pride in it. When it’s given to them they tend to abuse it. Of course there are some who can’t work and that would take some figuring out as well. I don’t think people should suffer needlessly. We live in a country with many opportunities (when the people are allowed to work) It’s a tough situation but again, while it may seem harsh, the majority of people can and should take care of themselves. Some may have to work harder or longer than others but that is with anything in life. There will always be someone more successful, better looking, smarter, etc than me. There will also always be someone who is less successful, not as attractive, and not as smart, etc. as I am. Such is life.

                I know you will probably disagree with some or maybe all of my opinions and that’s okay. Thanks for giving people an opportunity to share opposing viewpoints.

             3. When I learned about our tiered tax system when I was young, I asked in our free country how is it that everyone doesn’t pay the same percentage of their income in taxes?

29. Well said! 👍👏👏👏 Thank you. We are watching Detroit from across the border in Canada. We have friends and relatives in Michigan and we’re fearful for them. The Covidiots who showed up for the rally are exactly those people putting themselves and everyone else at risk. This isn’t about taking away people’s freedoms – it’s about protecting those freedoms so as many of us as possible can live to enjoy those freedoms when this global pandemic is at it’s lowest effect.
    Come on everybody; let’s get together on this to save the maximum number of lives!

30. I’ve been self-isolating for five or is it six weeks now? My wife goes down once or twice a week to shop, taking extreme precautions as I’m immune-compromised. I’m 58, so I’m pushing the vulnerable age range even without my immune problem. I work at a university library and we’ve been closed for four weeks now, fortunately everyone on full pay.

    I’ve always regarded the unofficial motto of the RNC as “I’ve got mine, screw you.” They consistently cheat to win, and go out of their way to rig the system. Our Alleged Leader, as leading is the last thing on his mind, has an amazing disconnect with reality and just defies description. The best thing our state governors can do is ignore him and work things out for themselves, using state law enforcement and national guard to prevent FEMA from stealing state ordered and paid-for medical supplies.

31. Daddy’s a Republican, isn’t he?

32. FYI I know Wil works with NAMI and it’s a great organization but DBSA also has a lot of excellent resources. So many people are really struggling right now: loss of routine, isolation, loss of work and sense of accomplishment, lost income.

    National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI)
    NAMI.org
    Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance (DBSA)
    https://www.dbsalliance.org/education/newsletters/april-2020-eupdate/

33. In the U.S. our system is the envy of the world! Our doctors are the best. Our industry? Completely terrific. The response of our government has been tremendous, and you should see the ratings on the presidents’ press conferences! I mean, I hear from several people – I don’t go looking for these things, but people tell me anyway – that our presidents’ press conferences have beaten the ratings of The Bachelor! Can you believe it? Really amazing. Simply amazing.

34. I’m in Texas, Wil. I think you know that. I think you also know what I do for a living. I’m essential (veterinarian), but I’m in a specific niche of my field (contract general surgeon/relief work) where I can scale back a lot, and I have. I want to stop working altogether, but that’s got its pros and cons for sure. I’m currently okay with April in terms of my comfort with the risk and my finances balancing out (working only a little bit and getting by). May is a concern for me, though. I can afford to take unpaid time off, and I want to take the whole month off, because they’re talking way too much way too fast for me. I’m have privilege, I know, but I want to use it here. I can stay home, so I want to and should. That’s one less person that those without that privilege don’t have to interact with, so it helps? But I don’t do routine care – everything I do needs done – yet it uses supplies and humans do need to come first – ethics are hard – but also, we are running out of supplies and rightfully can’t get more, so…what to do? Anyway, I’m so glad California is being stricter and therefore that Comic-Con was cancelled early. I’m looking for all the other cons to cancel, too, and damn Major League Baseball straight to hell.

35. “America has the resources to ensure that staying home does not financially ruin anyone who is making this incredible, unprecedented, unselfish sacrifice right now.”

    I don’t think that’s either as simple or even true. America has a lot of money, but they don’t have enough to just support everybody. That’s not how anything works. Please note that I’m not an american and I have never even been there, so no horse on this race.

    (And if you think of cutting spending on defense, go ahead and watch your economy fall to the ground.)

    What I have observed, is that people who can either work from home or have enough money to self isolate have this weird disconnect with the reality of people who can’t or don’t. Making assumptions such as “they are out to kill you!” is batshit crazy. Many people have to get out to earn a living. Also, and this is not minor, a declining economy produces death.

    Nothing is white or black, folks. There are compelling arguments on both sides. Saying “all life are precious” and halting the economic system (thus producing a lot of mortality) is naive and hurtful to our large scale society.

    Having said that, there are interesting developments. Business traveling, for example, is being proved innecessary; our online presence and ability to make business should improve exponentially during this crisis.

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