Guardian UK

I think it is important that everyone reads this.
If anyone sees this in an American paper, please let me know.

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283 thoughts on “Guardian UK”

  1. We continue to be the peace keepers of the World and we drastically pay for it through human lives. If we stop that role, who will take our place?

  2. Why should the american press cover a letter posted by a small group of people? The Guardian post its because they are Anti-USA. In there minds we are the cause of all evil in the world.
    I mean I realize Casey Casem is pissed because they didn’t let him do the voice of Shaggy for the movie, and Leo Estrada wishes he had been on CHiPs with his Brother, but that doesn’t mean we have to listen to their opinions.
    If I got 100 people to sign a letter that all Arabs should be expelled from the country should the US media publish that trash too?

  5. If this Jose Padilla turns out to be innocent, I’ll be the first one to apologize. I’ll authorize the government to pay him $20,000 or whatever in damages. But until then, let’s not go nuts worrying about the civil rights of people who all the evidence shows are out to destroy us. Let’s not get so worried about these feel-good civil rights concerns that we fail to do what the people want us to do: prevent the next 9-11.

  6. Critics: whether or not you agree with all of the content of the letter (I’m not sure I do, but I’m thinking about it), surely it qualitifes as free speech in action. I’m not American, but everyone knows that’s one of the great things about your country, and which you yourselves trumpet all the time. Isn’t it sad that it had to appear in a foreign paper first? What does that say?

  8. Wil,
    I love you, man. But, who the hell cares what a bunch of left-wing, bleeding heart liberal, Hollywood “elite” and clueless celeberties think? We are Americans and no one has the right to attack (physically) us. If you mess with us, we will and should destroy you. Plain and simple. You can not negotiate with terrorist and Islamists. Its in their blood and religion to kill every American in the world and die for Allah. I’m more than happy to allcoate resources to allow the meeting.

  9. I’m puzzled why so many people want to bend over backwards to be fair to these members of Al-Qaeda. It’s mind-boggling to me. I think it’s that these people feel good about themselves when they say, “Well, I was open-minded and fair, Myrtle. I’m very concerned about the rights of this man.”
    Anybody can say that, but they’re not charged with any responsibility whatsoever. They’re not dealing directly with the threat posed by these guys and to every innocent American. These Guardian idiots aren’t the ones the people will hold accountable if the next 9-11 happens because we worried about foolish things like this. We’re at war, folks. Face that cold, hard fact.

  10. There are celebrities on this list…but to call them “all celebrities” is incorrect, IMHO.
    From the list:
    Paul Chevigny, professor of law, NYU
    Noam Chomsky
    Stephanie Coontz, historian, Evergreen State College
    Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz, professor, California State University, Hayward
    John Gillis, writer, professor of history, Rutgers
    Rev E Randall Osburn, executive vice president, Southern Christian Leadership Conference
    Howard Zinn, historian

  11. Well… thanks for posting that. I guess it the patriotic side of me.. but when i hear ANTI-American crap…. well it makes my blood boil.
    the us of course makes mounds of mistakes.. and no doubt we have created half of the regimes we are trying to remove now, but are americans in general come evil force uprooting the rest of the world? i admit our society is far from perfect and most americans deal with injustices and infringements on our rights daily, but i don’t remember the government pulling people from their homes and cutting off hands and feet in a soccer stadium. Better yet, allowing a class of children to burn to death in a building, because they were not wearing proper attire.
    Everyone wants to bitch about the united states until they want something. The french in general have a distain for americans, but let the nazi’s role through europe and who gets the call.
    should we just become isolationist? i think not……. why would the rest of the world resist a country that promotes the basic freedoms of its people?
    sometimes an enemy can only be reckeoned with through brut force. a nice slap on the hand for every sucide bomber, a plea to not fly our planes into buildings, a swift kick in the ass, that someone strapping c-4 to there chest whatnot is not a logical person.
    9-11 was really a calls to arms for america to clean up its mess we have made in the last decade. i admit that the white house through its many predecesors have really left a bad impression for america in general……. but hey even saudi’s drink coke, and buy fast food.
    i will climb down off my soap box now. i just simply don’t get the world’s perception of my country.

  12. THANK YOU. Let us pray that those motivated by revenge, to whom that feels like justice, are led by some gentle miracle to see the futility of that path. Let us pray that the truths about freedom upon which this country was founded will prevail.

  13. It is worth pointing out that the United States is the only country convicted in world court of State Terrorism.
    Not a popular thing to express, but true none the less.
    Remember than the next time someone mentions the “Axis of Evil”.

  14. Ignorance is the bliss of small minds.
    The first question to ask is: “Why did they do this?”
    I have no love for terrorists, but we live blinded by the local media and political allegiance.
    The next time you’re oppressed by someone or something, imagine a lifetime of this and see how much you love it. The next time someone steals, or hurts someone from your family and you threaten to sue; imagine if you were told you cannot sue, you cannot do anything, and in fact you’ll be punished for even thinking about sueing.
    Imagine this and you’ll come closer to an understanding of why they are acting as terrorists – it’s the only voice they have available. And all this doesn’t make it acceptable, but we have to accept our role and fight to correct ourselves before we deign to correct someone else.

  15. I’ve never posted here but I check every day because I enjoy the site so much. Wil, thanks for posting that link to the Guardian article. I’m by no means a “left wing bleeding-heart liberal” and I’m scared crazy by the unilateral thinking of society in general right now. All of a sudden, it’s not cool or popular to question our leaders. The “you’re either with us or against us” mentality makes me wonder if the whole country has gone nuts with revenge.
    I cried and mourned for hours and days after 9/11 — such senseless loss of life should outrage EVERYONE. But shouldn’t we also be outraged that our country’s current leaders (on a bi-partisan level, I’m not knocking just Democrats or Republicans) have taken this opportunity to gather more power for themselves, thereby taking it away from the people? I’m going to quote Anthony Romero (ACLU director) because his words express my thoughts better than I can: “For the United States to maintain its moral authority in the fight against terrorism, its actions must be implemented in accordance with core American legal and social values.

  16. I would just like to know what we’re supposed to do when something like 9-11 happens? Crawl under the bedsheets and hope it all goes away? No.. we have a right to defend ourselves, just as any other country has. But because we have a larger army, and more technology, we become the bully. Not our fault.
    Amercian aggoance? Maybe… Do I want my family to be safe from extremests ready to kill anyone to acheive their goals? Yes. If it means being arrogant to protect myself.. so be it..
    And one last thought.. let’s say they do get the U.S. out of the picture…who’s next on the list then?

  18. Good on you Wil for having the courage to post this article. I am firmly in The Gaurdians camp on this issue and I feel it’s time that those of us that oppose this administrations insanity stand together with a single loud voice that says, “Enough”. The Gaurdian said it all so well I don’t feel I need to elaborate suffice it to say that people blindly supporting the administration will be hard to convince that they are wrong (which they are).

  20. You know, I’m a left-wing liberal type. I’m the first to say it. I’m feminist, pro-choice, and queer. But when I read this knee-jerk junk, it just sets me off.
    First off, the Taleban has been systematically savaging half of their population and treating them like barely conscious fecund pack animals. I know they’re only slaughtering WOMEN and not PEOPLE or anything, but maybe in the minds of all your lib’ral Bill-Maher-worshipping GUYS that might count for *something* once in a while, you know? Don’t roll your goddamned eyes over it, either. Feminists on both sides of the Atlantic have been trying to get the attention of the rest of the world about the Taleban for a DECADE, and now that we’re at war with them, we’ve got right-wingers on one side acting shocked-by-Gawd-shocked that these bastards that could beat old women to death with chains and whip little girls for smuggling schoolbooks can kill actual *people* and left-wingers on the other side engaging in the most lip-licking display of schadenfreude I’ve ever seen and simultaneously totally forgetting some stupid, inconsequential shit that the now-underdogs did to a coupla ho’s and bimbos, mere FEMALES.
    The, there’s the arrogance. The right wing acts like the US gets all the CREDIT for everything in the world, and the left wing acts like we get all the BLAME. Neither side seems to be able to see us as anything but a deity, either God or the Devil. It’s all ego — we hog the microphone either way, don’t we?
    We’re a COUNTRY. Sometimes we’re great, soemtimes we suck, but anyone who honestly thinks we’re to blame for everything just likes the ego-strokes of being center-stage, just like Bush and Buddies who want us center-stage for being the only voice of reason in the universe. There’s a poem I read once — oddly enough, it was in a Trek book directed toward Wes’s character:
    “Once in a stately passion, I cried in desperate grief:”
    “Oh Lord, my heart is black with guile. Of sinners, I am chief!”
    “Then stooped my guardian angel, and whispered from behind:”
    “Vanity, my little man — you’re nothing of the kind.”
    The right wing gets off on hogging all the credit. The left wing gets off on hogging all the blame. Either way, hey lookit us! We’re number one!
    And it’d be nice to see ONE GODDAMNED SUPPOSEDLY LIBERAL MALE ONCE IN A WHILE remember that that other half of humanity, the one that sits to pee, counts for something once in a blue fucking moon.

  21. another blind eye. i bet the left wing liberals would be screaming “murder” if someone walked into a supermarket with a bomb and killed several loved ones.
    9-11.. the gloves came off. I applaud George W for his stand.. and the job he is doing. Its easy to critisize when u are not having to make the life and death choices daily.
    Enough is enough.. enough of america kissing everyones ass to save a penny at the gas pump. lets just handle business.. and clean up these rogue terrorist groups.

  22. Not….gonna…..post. Aww hell.
    I sit somewhere in the middle of all this. I don’t agree with some of the “bleeding heart liberal” (to quote a few previous posters) stuff said in this “letter”. Do I like the fact we’re at war? Hell no. Sticking our nose in where it doesn’t belong is what got us in this mess in the first place. Do I like the fact that innocent Afghanis have been killed in the process? No. Do I think it’s wrong? Yes. But, as MobbyG pointed out, we can’t just hide from this. They killed THOUSANDS of innocent people. We have the right to defend. I don’t believe that this is a total act of revenge. Some of it is. It’s a natural reaction to something like this. But, something had to be done. If we hadn’t acted, who knows what else may have happened, and there are still no guarantees that nothing will happen. People need to sit back and think about the whole picture before they jump up on their soapbox and start spouting about the evil our government is for doing this. This is not like Vietnam. They came HERE, on our soil and killed thousands. They need to be stopped. And, I don’t really think Osama and his cohorts are the type you can just walk up to and say “You’re being naughty, please stop,” and they’ll listen. Unfortunately, force is necessary.
    As for this “dirty bomber” – I’m not sure how I feel about the way he is being handled. Most of me feels it isn’t fair and he should be allowed due process and all other rights afforded to criminals. But, there’s a small part of me that is glad he’s being handled the way he is. And that’s the part of me that is still freaked out about 9/11.
    And, Wil, I would have to disagree with your listing of non-celebrities. They may not be celebrities ala Hollywood celebrities, but they are well known people, and to me, that constitutes a celebrity. Especially Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. But, that’s the great thing about this country. We can agree to disagree and still get along.

  23. I have serious reservations about some of our government’s new policies after 9/11, but what exactly would be an appropriate level of response be?
    I’m not willing to relinquish ANY of my rights to free speech, due process, or to criticize the actions of our elected officials, but on the other hand, I don’t ever want to see another 9/11 here or anywhere else in the world.
    Is there anything that we can do as individual citizens that would make terrorists stop wanting to attack America?
    I applaud the free speech expressed in the letter to the Guardian. I only wish they would have made it more clear as to definite steps that we (again, as individuals) could take to fix the problem. How is the underground railroad or standing in solidarity with the resisters relevent to the current situation with terrorism?
    If there can be any non-military solution to the problem, then we as citizens had better take the initiative, because waiting for the government to get it right could be a bitter pill to swallow for everyone.

  24. I notice that many of you are for the “War against Terrorism”. What you fail to realize is that:
    1) You are neatly falling in with propaganda disseminated by the major media sources. Way to go for having a mind of your own.
    2) If Americans weren’t at the top of the food chain you can bet your apple pie that the “War on Terrorism” would be directed at the US. Can’t you see that Americans have been pulling the same heavy-handed sh*t for decades?
    I’m sorry but pull that flag out of your ass and your head along with it.

  25. Ok, there’s disagreeing and then there’s being downright rude.
    Can we limit our comments to our feelings and opinions and not telling people to get their head out of their ass just because they don’t agree with you?
    Thanks! 🙂

  26. i don’t know what scares me more, the fact that there are fanitics in this world who think that violence and murder, such as the atrocity of 9/11, are justifiable in any way, or the fact that so many Americans are still wandering around with blinkers on.
    I’m sick of living in a world where terrorists are allowed to thrive, but i am equally sick of hearing the same “we are America, we can do what we like” refrain. I don’t want my life to be controled by a man whom I did not elect, who rules a differant country, who is totally incapable of understanding the complexities of why so many people hate America, and who thinks you can stop Terrorists with tanks and bombs.You do not protect the lives of innocents by killing more innocents, and Democracy is worth nothing if basic freedoms are curtailed, whatever the reason. Don’t try to tell me that America’s “War” will stop maniacs like Bin Laden, who I notice, has not been caught or brought to justice, even though Afghanistan has been bombed into the stone age, and our SAS and military divisions are still fighting Al Quaeda.
    “You are either with us or against us” these are the words of a dangerous man. I notice that Bush wants to go after Iraq, because Iraq might be making weapons of mass destruction. Does that mean that the US has no such weapons of any kind, then?

  27. Wil,
    So there not “all” celeberties. The people you mentioned are professors. YEAH!!! Left-wing elitists and theologists who can’t make it in the “real” world so they become teachers! Oh joy!
    Everything to them is various shades of grey. These communists/socialists are the only ones who can rationalize terrorism and murder. Why do Americans give so much credit to these idiots?

  28. Wake up, Wil!
    If it were not for America being the strong force it is… you wouldn’t have had the nice life you did making movies, tv shows, enjoying summers off, etc… Not to mention the $$$ you made at one time. Nor would you be able to take your wife’s kids on little fun excursions like GEOCACHING and so forth. I mean, at least you can do that without threat of stepping on a mine or being shot by would-be power patrols.
    Folks like these need only one way in being dealt with – and if you can’t stomache it, then look away and quit being a hypocrite! I mean you obviously enjoy the benefits and the fruits of the life America has bestowed upon you and yours’ — yes? Me thinks so, young Ensign.
    Your anti-American attitude is turning me off so I’ll leave your site, now.
    Just know baby that you feed the very system that supports you and your lifestyle(s).
    So quit spreading such crap arounf the NET and go out there and find your REAL funny!
    😉

  29. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. No matter which side your on, this is the final conclusion.

  30. America is not always to blame for what goes on in the world, and I don’t believe that the article was saying that America was. I don’t think that it is right for America and all the other countries involved should go and attack Afghanistan for what happened in September. I like so many others couldn’t believe what we were seeing on t.v. I’ll never forget that, like I’ll never forget all the other tradgys in the world.
    Always find out what actually happened first, and then figure out what to do. America may be a super power, but America is not the peace keepers of the world. No one truly is. After Afghanistan,
    what’s next? Iraq? Palestine? Pakistan? Why not even Canada. Terrorisim is every where, America are not the only ones that have a problem with it.
    I think that America’s pride is getting in the way. This is just my reasoning, I don’t mean to offend anyone. This is just how I see it.

  31. IRAQ… did someone suggest that we not handle IRAQ because we have weapons of Mass destruction.
    hmmm i wonder if saddam would have any issues about detonating a bomb in the US? Nah you are right, he is a totally sane man.. who would never pay into terrorism…. or pay cash to the families of suicide bombers?
    Yeah he is the kinda guy i want to have a nuclear weapon… i can sleep well at night knowing he is lurkin out there.
    are you kidding…… IRAQ.. well we should have handled that mess in 91. I would support any move by our government to oust saddam. just give me a m-16 and show the the road.
    i notice most the the brain’aics that are oppose to militay action are prolly the first ones who would sit back.. enjoy the freedoms our framers gave us.. and NOT do a damn thing to defend our nation. TAlk is cheap in todays world.

  32. I have never posted here, but I think that the letter in the Guardian, more than being against the War On Terror was concerned with loss of personal freedoms (have you had a close look at the Patriot Act? Go look, then you are free to move the knees in a jerking motion, if you still desire).
    And since nobody has mentioned this yet,
    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ” (Ben Franklin)
    Happy Flag Day, y’all

  33. Wil,
    While I applaud you for having the courage to put up a link to this, which I can only assume reflects your opinions on this matter, and while I will fully and completely defend your right to do so, I do not, in any way, shape or form agree with anything in that partisan and isolationist diatribe.
    Look at the names on that list. Every name that I recognized is totally and completely opposed to the Bush Administration regardless of the issue or the Administration’s position on that issue. Their opinion is automatically biased and suspect.
    Further, the letter implies that the US is somehow involved with or in some way responsible for the attrocities committed by the Israeli military against the Palestinians.
    You are opposed to the US war on terrorism? Fine. What would you have us do? What course of action would you suggest? Negotiations? Whith whom? Concessions? The radical Islamic movement wants nothing less than the destruciton of our free and open American society. What concessions would you make? They ask for none.
    From the letter: “We too mourned the thousands of innocent dead and shook our heads at the terrible scenes of carnage – even as we recalled similar scenes in Baghdad, Panama City and, a generation ago, Vietnam.”
    Vietnam? VIETNAM? Totally different era, totally different reasons for our actions (as wrong as they were) and TOTALLY different environment. Also, some of the people on this list are probably some of the same persons who PROTESTED AGAINST the returning soldiers who were, in their own minds, doing their patriotic duty, whether they believed in the politics of the war or not.
    “…similar scenes in Baghdad, Panama City…”
    What scenes from Baghdad or Panama City showed wonton and careless disregard for civilian life? More to the point, when has, in either Iraq or Panama, the US ever DELIBERATELY targeted large groups of civilians? I can think of NO examples.
    I am opposed to this type of attitude. I abhor it. It disgusts me. And still, I fully and completely support the right of ANY American to hold, say and if they can, have printed this type of speech. That’s what the First Amendment is about. That’s what we’re currently fighting for.
    Kahuna

  34. One more thing before I have to go back to work and forgo 40% of my income to the imperial federal governemnt. Oops, thats another topic.
    You don’t have to aggree with everything the government does. I’m a Libertarian. If you apply Libertarian thought to your personal life and government, clear and non-PC thought becomes much easier. There is wright, wrong and common sense (or un-common sense, these days). I believe that the government needs to treat ALL AMERICAN citizens with equal rights. Padilla needs to have an attorney and be granted due process under the law.
    Libertarian thought also allows you to justify the total annialation of anyone who threatens your Liberty as an American. If a foreign enemy kills or attempts to kill us, they should have the understanding that we will destroy them, their country, their way of life and will kick their butt into 4th world living conditions.
    Being the U.S.A and the superpower we are. We have the privilege and responsibility to the rest of the world (who, for the most part wants to be just like us economically and socially) to rid this planet of evil doers (thanks GB for the quote).

  36. notjustanothertrekkie
    I’ll take my Glock and Shotgun and join you. You’re right on the money. The leftest, braniacs are the ones who fled, cowardly, to Canada during the Vietnam war, who protested during the Gulf, the idots who went into the church of the nativity to check on the ‘well-being’ of the murderers and terrorist, and the same ones supporting the guardian.
    Oh well, WE will have to kick butt ourselves so they can go on ranting about how bad the US is(the country they live in and take so much from) with no fear that a Taliban or a communist will shoot them for speaking their minds.

  37. I wasn’t even going to post any comments about the article since I’m on such middle ground when it comes to this subject. Plus, I didn’t know how to put my feelings into words, but I felt the need to say that Sarcastic Cheese’s post took the words and feelings right out of my head. I couldn’t have agreed more with that post.

  38. Wil,
    Thanks for posting this, and thanks for putting up with all the crap you’re getting from many of the posters. It seems so many here are falling under the “you’re with us or against us” binary mentality of the current administration.
    I love my rights – they’re the best part about being an American. My freedoms, my protections…all of it is much more American than waving a tattered flag from your SUV window. Being American means standing up for your rights, and the rights of others, even if they seem to be as guilty as sin. The open letter didn’t make my blood boil…the comments to the tune of “they don’t have rights, they’re terrorists/guilty” did. That’s just sick. Equal protection under the law needs to be gueranteed to everyone, otherwise, no one’s going to stop the gov’t from coming after you when you’re preceived as “guilty”. America is wonderful, but you’re not being “anti-American” by speaking out, you’re doing everything the founding fathers wanted you to do.

  39. I have an idea for afghans…..
    let’s just invade and lease it out to DISNEY. they can put in some condos.. rides… and part of the admission can go to help out social security.

  40. I wasn’t even going to post any comments about the article since I’m on such middle ground when it comes to this subject. Plus, I didn’t know how to put my feelings into words, but I felt the need to say that Sarcastic Cheese’s post took the words and feelings right out of my head. I couldn’t have agreed more with that post.

  42. Spred: Your comments about teachers (“Can’t make it in the real world so they become teachers”) pretty much takes away any credibility you or your opinions might have had.
    In simpler words: No one cares what you think now that you’ve proven yourself to be a narrow-minded idiot.

  43. Y’know, I think many people are missing the point of that letter. One of the key characteristics of wisdom is TEMPERANCE. No one said we shouldn’t go after the people responsible for 9/11. No one said that we had to hide and not fight back. I think the essence of the point being made here is that we need to show soberness and self-control.
    I hate it as much as the next guy when a dead horse gets beaten, but you have to remember that Dubya’s election was questionable… in a STATE in which he has strong family ties. Imagine that. Oh, and his father, aside from being a former President, was heavily involved in the CIA. Just.. think about it. If Gore was in office, would we be better off? That’s an entirely different can of worms and something to which I cannot give an honest, educated response to. I don’t know. All I know is I don’t like what’s happening right now.
    The hatred for America is pouring over us from elsewhere and I’m really starting to feel a little uneasy about actually being American. I don’t want to leave the country for any reason. Hell, my best friend just arrived in Korea for a one week business trip and I’m going to be worried sick until she’s right here next to me again at home. America is turning into a big farking bully with Dubya at the helm. He needs to calm the hell down.
    YES. Go after the people responsible. YES. Make an example so that hopefully someone will think twice before doing something similar again. But for all that is sacred and right and true, I just wish the goverment would PLEASE put some thought into what it’s doing and proceed with a little less recklessness. How many months has it been? Osama isn’t dead yet? Even if you kill Bin Laden, someone else will just rise to take his place.
    The immediate reaction is revenge. Go kill all those people in retaliation for who we lost. Think it through. That will solve nothing if America does not start seriously reevaluating its priorities and the way it presents itself to the rest of the world. I destest bullies and I will not have one speaking for me, either.
    I am fortunate that I was born an American this time around. I cannot possibly imagine how much more difficult it must be to live anywhere else, what with the economic conditions… from things such as natural disasters to crime to disease and famine, etc. I like living here. One of the REASONS I like living here is that I’m allowed to think for myself. And that includes disagreeing with the government if I don’t.. well.. agree.
    That makes me anti-American? Sorry, but I think that makes me more American that anyone who’s simply following along like blind sheep. Call me names if you want. That’s your right under the constitution. You also have the right to remain ignorant and make yourself look like an idiot for your “love it or leave it” and your “with us or against us” attitudes that you so freely spit out left and right.
    The world is not black and white. It is nearly black on one end, nearly white on the other, and has infinte shades of grey in between. The sooner some people in this world realize that, the better for everyone.

  44. do terrorists that are not american citizens have rights under our laws? hmmmm i don’t think they are protected by our constitutional rights.
    do they deserve due process? i say if they are americans committing terrorist acts… they are entitled.. if not.. than they are considered enemy combantants… and since i can remember .. are due no due process. but i am not a lawyer..so i can not debate the point.

  45. “The Guardian post its because they are Anti-USA.”
    No, the Guardian publishes this because the UK still has a free press.
    Let us not forget that there is legislation before congress that will allow US military intervention in the Netherlands (!) if any American citizen is tried for War Crimes at the International Court to be established there.
    I am increasingly convinced there’s a lot of stuff Bush doesn’t want the American people to hear. Not until after he’s safely re-elected of course.
    Call me a bleeding-heart liberal if you please, but at least my mind is open.
    Good on yer Wil for posting this link.

  46. “Repeat after me, Citizen:
    You are with us, or you are against us!”
    Wil it is very arrogant of you to assume because someone supports the war on terrorism that they don’t know what they are talking about. This assumption is made again and again by liberals and is not just incorrect but plain rude. I saw the towers collapse in my city and now know the threat to our country is very real. What would you have us do about it?
    I look at the list of people who gave support to that letter in the guardian and it is full of academics,B list actors, and intellectuals. These are the people with their feet not touching the ground. Working people with families are not sheep, Wil. You need to get past your assumptions and really talk to people who support the war on terrorism and why they support it.
    Andy Rooney said a very thing in “The Greatest Generation”. He said “It is foolish to think that any peace is better than any war”.
    Get off your high horse and stop having such a superior and arrogant attitude towards 99.9% of the population.

  47. It should be a reflexive act on the part of anyone who offers critical indictments of one party to look with an un-jaundiced eye at their own back yard. The article from the Guardian UK, point of origin clearly apparent by its masthead, I suppose was written with a conscience completely free of hypocrisy, considering the British decades-long campaign against the IRA, labelled a terrorist group, which seeks the liberation of Northern Ireland from the UK and reunification with the rest of Ireland.
    “Clean your finger before you point at my spots.”
    -Benjamin Franklin
    The president’s prounouncement “you are with us, or you are against us” was in reference to the principle of how the world will tolerate, or not tolerate, terrorism and those who wreak terror on others. Beyond that, the caterwauls appear to be focused on how we will implement our procedures to deal with it, hopefully not to denounce the principle of resistance to terror. (?)
    The 9/11 atrocity was an event virtually nobody in this country had any frame of reference to compare to, yet the Israeli’s live with proportionately comparable events almost weekly. Whatever is said about Israel, the United Nations created the country right where it is, and Jewish settlements don’t blow up schoolbusses full of children. There was never a Palestine-the-nation, it’s just a region of the map.
    I served for 3 years in Egypt and Saudi Arabia as a member of the military. The peoples in that part of the world hate us. So completely that there is nothing we could ever do, nothing, that would change that. They hate our wealth, our prosperity, our laws, our culture, our freedom, our ablility to even have this conversation. And virtually all are ruled by dicatatorial monarchies or oligarchies such as Iran, who covet our wealth for themselves while their people are left to exist at a 11th century living standard.
    The rule of instinct and self-preservation is the same now as it has been since the dawn of time. When you are threatened, you resort to measures for defence that sometimes exceed conventional means of acceptable behavior. Congress is beating the bushes 😉 looking for blame about who and who may have known in advance of 9/11, particularly the CIA and FBI. These are the very people we are replying on to save us from future attacks, but some still would rather focus on placing blame than firming up our procedural methods of dealing with it. Hopefully, the recent announcements in the press about improvements being made in “Homeland Security” will bear fruit, and make them better equipped to handle this.
    Our Constitution exists to protect American citizens, the framers never extended that to foreign nationals. Read your Federalist Papers and know what James Madison, who largely drafted the Constitution, says about it. We have laws that permit people to be arrested on suspicion, including citizens of this country. And legal instruments exist to prevent citizens from being unreasonably detained, which are available to Jose Padilla. For non-citizens, the Hague treaty (Geneva Convention) governs the means of handling prisoners of a conflict. The Guantanamo Bay detainees are defined as prisoners of war; if you have a problem with this, clamor for congress to sh*t or get off the pot and declare it so in a legal sense, which they have made not a squeak about. Because prisoners of war do not have the same rights as do our citizens, period., by international agreement. In any case, we aren’t torturing and cutting the throats of our prisoners, as happened to David Pearl.
    At the same time, I believe our gorenment is not equipped procedurally to deal with a terrorists, suspected or otherwise, in a legal sense. Our laws and parctices were created when enemies were much more clearly defined; uniformed soldiers, infiltrators, and other enemy combatants who’s afiliations and loyalties were easier to discern. Nobody currently being detained is going to be run roughshod over concerning their rights by this country. To do so would be political suicide by our government elected officials, and the press isn’t going to turn a blind eye. I think our energies, as citizens, would be best focused on pressuring our government to develop superior legal means of dealing suspected terrorists of any nationality or idealogical stripe, and implement them as soon as possible, so that reasonable rights are assured of current and future prisoners, while the job of protecting America is also aloowed to be successful. I have lots of ideas, but I’m just one guy.
    I’m sorry for those who castigate America for not having yet achieved civic and social utopia. We still do a better job that anywhere else in the world… pick a better country. Let us keep working to get there, and not demolish ourselves with recriminations on the way. It’s good to criticize, but at what point will you start offering solutions?

  49. Okay, I didn’t mean the thing about Iraq. I meant that it’s just not wise to go and attack them yet.
    Besides, we all know what happened last time. It’ll happen again. History is bound to repeat itself. No one said America didn’t have the right to go and attack. Just find out what really happened first. Then do something about it.

  50. Sorry, you are absolutely right. Daniel Pearl. My apologies. You have made your point with laser-like precision.
    Umm, did anything else penetrate to you? Or was that all you got from it?

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