Metafilter was the first to share this story from the democratic underground. It seems that Bush was speaking at Ohio State University’s graduation. The students were told that they were expected to provide a “thunderous” ovation and if they disrupted the ceremonies in any way, they’d be arrested.
That’s right. At a public college, the students would be arrested and expelled if they expressed their unhappiness with George W. Bush.
One student, who exercised his constitutionally-protected 1st amendment right of free speech, and turned his back on Bush tells his story here.
Let’s get something straight, because I’m really tired of being told to “move to Afghanistan” because I’m “anti-American”: If we allow the Bush Administration to goose-step all over our civil rights, and we sit back quietly while Ashcroft dances all over the constitution, we no longer have a country worth fighting for.
Things like this transcend political ideology, IMHO. It doesn’t matter if it’s the Democrats or the Republicans who are currently in charge.
The thing that is so amazing about the USA is that I can (as of June 15, 2002) stand here, and loudly proclaim, “I DO NOT SUPPORT GEORGE W. BUSH, OR HIS POLICIES!!,” without fear of reprisal. When graduating students are subject to ARREST for an action like turning their backs on a person who they don’t respect, we have a very serious problem.
I hope that everyone can take off their various political mantles for a moment, and see this for what it is: the unconstitutional silencing of dissidents.
McCarthy would be so proud.
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Wil,
I completely agree with you! Some of the goings-on of the current administration are truly disturbing and must be addressed. Good for you for speaking out! 😀
Brian
: gives Wil thunderous applause :
Sometimes, living in the Land of the Stupid as it seems I do, I feel like I am the only one who doesn’t think Shrub is Mr. Wonderful Fearless Leader. I am not alone!
Morons.org did a piece on this as well. There is another article on there where the writer quoted John Ashcroft and responded with this little gem:
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety” -Benjamin Franklin.
Of course, reading all the responses on Morons, the right-wingers are already debunking all of this has being non-existant liberal properganda. You know, for a bunch of guys who constantly complain about losing their Constitutional rights they sure are quick to roll over and show their belly when their own are the ones doing it.
Holy crap. Well, I for one wish to hold this up in the face of those in another blog comment threat who said that our rights to free speech were not imperiled. Where do think this will end folks? How far is too far when it comes to threats and intimidation against American citizens for expressing their opinions. My ancestors left England partly because they thought King George was oppressive of their rights. I have no intention of leaving my country because of this King George. I know I will get lashed for saying this, but I’m just about ready to join Michael Moore and demand that Bush resign. (Not that it will do much good with his approval ratings!) But he has not upheld his Oath of Office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Holy crap. Well, I for one wish to hold this up in the face of those in another blog comment threat who said that our rights to free speech were not imperiled. Where do think this will end folks? How far is too far when it comes to threats and intimidation against American citizens for expressing their opinions. My ancestors left England partly because they thought King George was oppressive of their rights. I have no intention of leaving my country because of this King George. I know I will get lashed for saying this, but I’m just about ready to join Michael Moore and demand that Bush resign. (Not that it will do much good with his approval ratings!) But he has not upheld his Oath of Office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Hey Wil,
Well, I’m Canadian over here, so I dunno what to say… but i’ll trust you on the Bush issue!
We have Cretien and he’s good sometimes…. but BAD too!
Lily
I agree completely. Just before Memorial Day, I wrote a piece on what makes someone a patriot. To me, one of the key tenets of patriotism is acknowledging your duty to question the practices of those in power. The idea that we should “keep quiet” to show our support and patriotism … rubbish.
My husband and I have been looking for every piece of info we could get on this incident since reading Wil’s post, and I would like to point out that we’ve come across a discussion of it on an obviously Republican message board, and even most of the people there are appalled and frightened by this event. The issue here is not whether any of us support George W. Bush, but the fact that those participating in what I have to say is probably the most peaceful and unobtrusive methods of protest I’ve ever heard of were subject to arrest and expulsion. This terrifies me to no end, and does nothing to placate any of my fears about where our society is headed. It would seem that the threat of terrorism has given our government the license to do… well pretty much anything.
Thank you, Wil, for posting those links. When our civil rights are at stake, it is important that our eyes be opened again and again.
M
We are definately not as hardline in enforcing a state of reverence for our leaders down here in Australia. Our media seem to revel in showing up our politicians when they deserve it (and sometimes when they don’t…)and our cartoonists make sure we never take our pollies seriously. I love it. Noone has all the right answers, regardless of whether you’ve been voted into the top office or not – no amount of squelching other people’s rights will change that. An interesting article. Thanx!
We are definately not as hardline in enforcing a state of reverence for our leaders down here in Australia. Our media seem to revel in showing up our politicians when they deserve it (and sometimes when they don’t…)and our cartoonists make sure we never take our pollies seriously. I love it. Noone has all the right answers, regardless of whether you’ve been voted into the top office or not – no amount of squelching other people’s rights will change that. An interesting article. Thanx!
*Roaring applause!!* Wil you Rock! I am almost wanting to name my first born after you. 😀
You know, I find it interesting that so many people who are so eager to question “the establishment” are also so willing to take at face value what they read on the Net. C’mon people, wake up! Just because it says what you want to read doesn’t mean you can put your critical thinking skills away!
If I’m not buying what the Administration is selling, and if I’m not buying what the networks are selling, it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than a couple of website links to sources with ZERO credibility to convince me that this story is real. I’m not saying it isn’t real, I’m just saying I haven’t seen enough to convince me it is.
The first-person student account rang VERY false for me and I stopped reading when I got to the part about the state trooper watching him closely after the comment about Bush. Give me a fucking break. Do you REALLY believe this??
It’s still America, folks, and if you think Bush sucks, yell it from the rooftops without fear of being dragged away in irons.
Most other conspiracy theories are at least more entertaining than this drivel…
And right now down in Hell, Dick Nixon is gnashing his teeth and muttering, “Protesters in Ohio? All he’ll do is expel them? In my day, we had the national guard shoot them. Damn! I wish Islamic extremists had attacked when *I* was the President!”
And right now down in Hell, Dick Nixon is gnashing his teeth and muttering, “Protesters in Ohio? All he’ll do is expel them? In my day, we had the national guard shoot them. Damn! I wish Islamic extremists had attacked when *I* was the President!”
Zeno has something to what he says….about maybe not buying too quickly into something we read. So implore Wil’s fellow readers to help find some more supporting evidance before the FBI or CIA (aka shrub’s thugs) hide it.
I agree with you Wil. I for one don’t even follow polotic’s but I’ve seen this kind of stuff before and it’s wrong I tell ya!
….and post it here.
Actually, if you read the metafiler further down, there are excerpts from coverage run in the Associated Press and the Washington Post.
I will say, my gut first reaction was a bit stronger than if I had waited an hour before posting. (Always wait an hour after eating before you swim.) While there is no evidence that anyone related to Bush had anything to do with this blatant curtailment of the first amendment. Still it is alarming when our institutions of higher learning are participating in supressing dissent by threat of expulsion and arrest.
Yeah that was on our news. .Oh and way to mention Ohio man. Way to be
Oh and Bush is gay
It’s a little thing called “respect”. You may disagree with him but he deserves respect as much as everyone here thinks they deserve respect. The “turn your back” group didn’t have to show up and disrespect him outright.
Mick Jagger, rock and roll star, was knighted yesterday for services to music. Bush not to be outdone awarded the National Medal of Honor to the Announcer at the Ohio State Commencement for calling for a “thunderous” ovation.
Later in the program several people were removed from the stadium for turning their backs on the president. Bush when asked if that wasn’t a violation of their free speech rights said, “Hell No” I guarantee not one of them heard “Simon Says”
Wil,
I’m glad I’m not the only one who is not afraid to openly criticize the government, and encourage others to do so as well. That is what makes our country so great; we have the right to question our public officials. Keep it up, it will be worth it someday.
Dee
Two good points are raised:
1) While I believe it to be very likely that this event actually happened, it would probably be a good idea to maintain a certain amount of skepticism until at least one other person from this graduating class can confirm this story.
2) OSU is VERY culpable in the violation of several student’s constitutional rights, and if one points a finger at the Bush administration, one should also point a finger at OSU.
Having said 1&2, my outrage at the steady and un-marked erosion of my constitutional rights stands.
>>wil said: When graduating students are subject to ARREST for an action like turning their backs on a person who they don’t respect
>>lea said: It’s a little thing called “respect”. You may disagree with him but he deserves respect as much as everyone here thinks they deserve respect. The “turn your back” group didn’t have to show up and disrespect him outright.
i usually stay out of this stuff, but i want to say this:
respect is NOT a right. it must be earned, and once it is earned it must be maintained.
i’m not talking about respecting every person as an individual with equal rights. that’s a given. obviously. (redundantly.)
i’m talking about respect for a person’s morals, character, actions, and so on. we should NOT have to automatically grant our respect or esteem to any person. it must be earned.
part of “freedom,” etc etc etc, in a democracy, means being “free” to express disrespect as well as respect. again, obviously.
i’m not even american. i have never personally seen direct evidence for any of the accusations against either president bush and his admininistration, or the “left-wing liberals” (quit with the labels, can’t we, please? rednecks. 😉 ) who make the accusations… i can’t judge any of that with any real backup. but respect is not a right, and if you disagree with someone’s principles or actions, you are free to express that- whether he’s the janitor or the president.
political correctness, fairness, and acceptance of differing beliefs are all well and good. but that shouldn’t equate with diluting or reserving your own opinion of what is right and wrong.
(sorry for the long post.)
I read through this but I find that lately a lot of people are trying to dig up conspiracy theories but this nation isn’t turning against us. I know it is something to be concerned about but some of the theories just are wild. I think in this instance something was taken way out of context and wasn’t fully researched and someone wrote something for hits and ratings. But that’s my humble opinion.
Let me start with a blanket statement: I do NOT like Bush. I didn’t vote for him, I think he’s running this country into the ground, and I am not one of those that stopped criticizing him after 9/11.
That having been said, I have to agree with Zeno above about finding credibility with the first person account of the OSU commencement. Similarly, I’m not saying it didn’t or couldn’t happen, but what disturbs me is the way that people are willing to take such things at face value, without question. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
After digging around this story for a bit, I found this quote posted from a AP filing:
“Bush was invited to speak at the Ohio State commencement by representatives of the graduating class. But immediately before class members filed into the giant football stadium, an announcer instructed the crowd that all the university’s speakers deserve to be treated with respect and that anyone demonstrating or heckling could be subject to expulsion and arrest. The announcer urged a “thunderous” ovation for outgoing university President William Kirwan. Bush, too, was heavily applauded.”
Yes, this sounds like the kind of bullshit thing too many colleges and universities are pulling these days. (Didn’t Dennis Miller say something like, “In my day, colleges WERE the free speech zones” recently?) And sure, I can buy into the fact that they wouldn’t want any openly critical or embarrassing displays against Bush. But that anonymous first person account was just too soupy.
For what’s is worth, Wil, I don’t think you’re anti-American; I think you’re about as American as they come (hey, you like video games, criticizing your government, and the word-fragment “hella”). My main point is: be careful of getting sucked into stuff you find on the Net, and NEVER take off your Skeptic Hat.
Hey ISABEL,
Preach on. thats all i got to say about that
Hey ISABEL,
Preach on. thats all i got to say about that
Wil,
I am a Bush supporter. However I believe every person has a right to express their opinion. The only anti-Americans are the ones calling you an anti-American for expressing your 1st ammendment rights. I live in Texas (yes the land where you can get a lethal injection on just about every street corner) and I believe there are many good qualities about Mr. Bush however with the good come the bad. I am completely with you on the privacy and freedom issues. I believe to many Men, women, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters have given up their lives to make our lives better. What the Bush Administration is trying to do is wrong. In a day like the day we live in everyone is afraid but giving in to terrorists is giving them exactly what they want. I believe to many americans have lost their lives to make this country what it is today. Preach on Wil we support you.
Josh Sol
Dear Wil —
I live in the Philippines — a country that was once colonized, and is currently dominated by US foreign/political policy (for which state of affairs our government shares a good deal of responsibility). A country that, during World War II, saw Filipinos enlisting in the US Armed Forces because they were promised American citizenship if they fought for America (the Philippines was a colony of the US back then, and due for independence) — men who gave up the best years of their lives during WWII, and as old and weary veterans, spent even more years in the United States working at any kind of job, just to get that precious “resident alien” or “blue passport” status — so that they could send for their children and watch a new generation make a better life for themselves in “the land of the free”. (Imagine a retired Colonel, 65 years old, a Bataan Death March survivor, working as a *security guard*!! But that’s another story.)
Despite all the bad water under the bridge, many Filipinos continue to believe that America is the best place in the world to live in. When you report incidents like this one, it is scary to think that a “bastion of democracy” as the United States, can resort to repressive measures equal to anything employed in the Marcos martial law era.
I hope saner minds soon prevail over such actions. The peaceful expression of dissent is a healthy thing, whether in politics or in the family.
Than you, Mr. Wheaton, for coming out in support of the Constitution. As far as I am concerned, you have done more to fight terrorism than the entire Bush Administration and its stupid war in Afghanistan.
By preserving our freedom and democracy, we can defeat the goals of the terrorists.
Thanks for the link. Knowing is half the battle.
And now I know there is a battle.
I can tell you now as a distant observer in Australia; I and most of my friends think its all pure insanity. And what is worse is that the media doesnt have the guts to just call it plain old WAR.
It has to be a WAR ON TERRORISM. Oh… that must make it right. *note sarcasm*
This is a question of RESPECT. You may hate Bush (Wil), you make like him (me), but it is the position of President of the United States that should be respected. Those protesters are just ignorant, emotional fools, they hate Bush for no good reason. Yeah Bush beat the hell out of Gore, so F-ing what? Just because there weren’t enough dead people and illegals to get Gore elected is no reason to hate Bush! They should respect the office of the President.
I know that Clinton almost destroyed any respect the office held, Bush has restored it nicely! After all smoking ‘dipped’ cigars, getting bj’s under the desk while talking to forign leaders and commiting perjury is not enough to get expelled from office. What has Bush done for people to get so mad at him? NOTHING! It is just an illogical ideological hatred. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, or cigar if you prefer?
Let us not forget it is the Left (and titles are very good, thank you) that refused to support Israel in her defense from the “Palestian” barbarian animals, and the Right that expressed its support! Who are the fascists the new nazis? It is the liberal left and the A-rabs. Yes, the A-rabs have pictures of OBL in their houses, remind you of an AH we all know? This new axis of evil must be smashed, the terrorists=nazis and MUST BE KILLED! Got that kiddies? I think Bush, if anything is coddling them too much.
Oh yeah, Wil “move to Afghanistan” you “anti-American”, you. lol;>
NEVER AGAIN!
LONG LIVE NYC, SUPPORT THOSE WHO SUPPORT HER!
“Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s Liberty Teeth and keystone under independence. To ensure peace, security, ans happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. They deserve a place of honour with all that is good.” – George Washington
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of firearms.” – Thomas Jefferson
Respect or not, you should NOT be arrested for turning your back on someone! Assaulting him verbally or physically.. yes. But peacefully turning your back?
Sieg Heil!
WTF is this country coming to?
I challenge you to confirm this UNNAMED guy’s account from a legitimate news source. They may have stated that if people DISRUPTED the event, then they would be expelled from it. This nonsense about being arrested for turning your back is, well, have you ever heard the term “urban legend?”
No one is going to be arrested for turning their backs. However, if they make an actual disruption that prevents the event from proceeding, that would be grounds to be kicked out or even arrested depending on the seriousness. If I came to one of your comedy shows and stood up and yelled through the whole thing would you say nothing and respect my “constitutional right?” If so, I challenge you to let anyone come to every one of your shows and disrupt the event and you promise not to have security throw them out!!!! Again, look to verify these silly urban myths before you publish them as fact!!!
Ah, MatrixRaven, I see you are practising for the next Liberal president.
I prefer to close with “Never Again”, but you may end your thought how you wish, intersting it should be that!
Auf Wiedersien
LONG LIVE NYC!
Kind of reminds me of the left trying to be the thought police in a public institution as well. A “professor” at Berkeley, wrote the following course description for a class called “The Politics and Poetics of Palestinian Resistance.” This is was the original description of the course. Please note the last sentence.
Course Description: Since the inception of the Intifada in September of 2000, Palestinians have been fighting for their right to exist. The brutal Israeli military occupation of Palestine, an occupation that has been ongoing since 1948, has systematically displaced, killed and maimed millions of Palestinian people. And yet, from under the brutal weight of the occupation, Palestinians have produced their own culture and poetry of resistance. This class will examine the history of the Palestinian resistance and the way that it is narrated by Palestinians in order to produce an understanding of the Intifada and to develop a coherent political analysis of the situation. This class takes as its starting point the right of Palestinians to fight for their own self-determination. Conservative thinkers are encouraged to seek other sections.
The left is at it as well with their agenda, Wil. They changed the course description of this class because of the public outcry. Sheesh, if you think a certain way, seek other sections. What a crock.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center had an article about it: http://www.wiesenthal.com/social/press/pr_item.cfm?ItemID=5711
Also, at the University of South Carolina, (snipped from an article)
“On Jan. 16, 2002, Professor Lynn Weber of the University of South Carolina’s (USC) Women Studies Program distributed a syllabus to the students in her seminar. Among other things, the syllabus included a list of “Guidelines for Classroom Discussion.” In order to participate in class discussion (20 percent of each student’s final grade), the guidelines ruled, students in Professor Weber’s class must first “acknowledge that racism, classism, sexism, heterosexism, and other institutionalized forms of oppression exist.” The guidelines go on to require that prospective students further agree that “we are all systematically taught misinformation about our own group and about members of other groups,” that “this is true for members of privileged and oppressed groups,” and that students must “agree to combat actively the myths and stereotypes about our groups and other groups.”
Quite a mouthful for the first day of class. The problem with all this is not so much that Professor Weber believes that institutionalized “racism, classism, sexism, heterosexism, and other institutionalized forms of oppression” exist (maybe, maybe not) nor even that “we are all systematically taught misinformation about our own group and about members of other groups” (a judgment from which one must suppose Weber generously exempts herself). The problem is that Weber proposes turning these exquisitely debatable propositions into articles of faith on penalty of a reduced grade. Believe otherwise — or so her syllabus would seem to suggest — and you will suffer the consequences.”
Yep, McCarthy would be proud of both sides.
To combat this from either side, I personally read news from both points of view, listen to conservative and liberal news sources so I get a a well rounded version of the news. Then I feel I’m getting a good representation and can make up my own opinion from there.
Sorry for the long post…
Anne
While looking through Metafiler (cool site, by the way!) I found another apparent example. This one is to someone who is here on a visa and attended the same Mosque as Padilla when he was in Florida. They’re holding him now on immigration charges, whatever that means. They haven’t said that he’s actually done anything, or really that he’s THOUGHT of doing something. Here’s what they have said:
“We have suspicions; that’s it,” a federal source told the Herald. “We are working hard right now to run this all out. We have reason to believe this man has extremist views. They were friends and they attended the same Fort Lauderdale mosque.”
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=5&cid=578&u=/nm/20020615/ts_nm/attack_dirtybomb_arrest_dc_1
Echoing a poster on Metafiler… Pardon me…. I was under the impression that holding extremist views was legal in America.
I’ll hold my judgement on this until I hear more or until time has passed and we’ve heard nothing.
Oh, preemptive comment: Yes, non-citizens do enjoy Constitutional protections, although not all the rights of citizens, such as the right to vote.
You’re on the way to end up like Nazi-Germany. All the signs are there. Do they not teach you history in school anymore?
On another note, just how was the US democratically elected to be protector of the ‘free’ world? When was the job of policing the whole planet officially handed over? And by whom? Who decides which countries are evil? Do the people get a say? Because that’s what democracy is all about, right?
Just wondering…
No, I’m not anti-American, just asking questions…..
NYC:
People don’t dislike Bush because he beat Gore (although that’s something).
It’s because he’s an underqualified former crack addict who has about as much intelligence as my ancient neurotic terrier.
I am NOT exaggerating.
The Bush administration has taken great pains to hide the president’s lack of higher intelligence, going so far as to script him making jokes about it in his heavily scripted speeches. He dodges important, controversial questions. He rarely speaks without a prewritten speech in front of him.
Please don’t tell me he’s the most qualified man in the country. I respect the office, if only because it’s a powerful one, but there is no way in hell I can respect a man, a ‘leader of the free world’, who knows less about the world than most cheerleaders I know.
Ah yes Annie, History is the key here.
Once upon a time there was an Evil Empire called the Soviet Union. In an effort to prevent the destuction of the US and other free nations they banded together in something called NATO. These brave nations then defended weaker nations from the Communist hordes attempting to conquer the planet. Now we have evil people (terrorists)trying to kill everyone who doesn’t squat like they do, to Allah. (Even some who do, but we wont get into that.) So, the US is trying to protect itself and her allies from the new hordes.
Got it? Probably not based on your question. But, good luck!
NEVER AGAIN!
DEFEND LIBERTY, DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO EXIST!
After reading this, i’m suddenly flashed back to some “suspected” “dirty-bomb” “terrorist” (lets see how many alarms i set off in the CIA’s monitoring system with this one!) who has been held for 4 months now, WITHOUT being charged, and is an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
… Now, let me say at the moment that i’m as certin as anyone else that the mentioned person probably should NOT be on the streets and we are definatley safer with him in custody, but, my point is the same as Uncle Willies…
When our basic freedoms are trampled on for the sake of the “greater whole”, or as Bush and company call it, “Homeland security” (isnt that what the national guard, CIA and FBI DO???!!!) its not so far a cry between some muslum looking character to act as a scape goat for Bush’s ego and poll’s, and our dearly beloved Uncle Willy or even yours truely being snatched up in the middle of the night for “turning our back” on our dear and wonderful leader.
Anyone got some spare barf bags from the airplane?? I feel a projectile coming up quick.
I would suggest that everyone reading this send a copy of that letter to their local news stations and even the national ones, hell, anyone who may listen– (did someone mention Dinnis Miller??) Lets see what we can cook up eh?
Mike
Hi KJG, interesting initials. Much like the KGB, an evil arm of a communist state. Hmm, are you a communist? Do you like those who beat, tortured and killed American servicemen and allies of the cause of freedom? Probably not, it is likely just your initials.
Anyway, Bush has a Masters degree in History? Do you have a masters degree in… anything? Probably not, but you and your terrier so much smarter than W. Every smart politician uses a prepared speech, even Lincoln he kept them in his hat! Do you think he was dumb too?
NEVER AGAIN!
So this war on terrorism is NATO’s then?? I don’t see many NATO countries fighting in Afghanistan. When was the vote held in the NATO assembly to declare war?
I grew under the shadow of Soviet Comunism in a little country called Denmark. We are NATO too. But what is going on in the US now is not so very different to what the Russian people suffered under Soviet rule. No freedom of speech, arrest for dissent, secret police etc.
Stalin’s Soviet regime was little different to Hitler’s.
How will yours differ?
Hi Annie, while I greatly respect Denmark, the US was attacked and we do not need their help. No vote needs to be taken, the US was attacked we have the right and duty to defend our citizens from barbarians. I assume then the US should allow millions of her citizens to be slaughtered, until NATO says, “thats enough!” well bullocks to that, as my English friends would say. God Bless Britannia. One of our true friends. They understand who is Hitler, and it isn’t Bush.
If you can’t see the difference between the Soviets and the US then I pity you.
NEVER AGAIN! DEFEND FREEDOM!
NYC:
Yes, KJB=my initials.
You’re so smart, being able to see the similarities to the former Soviet Union’s intelligence agency’s acronym and my name. Bravo. You’ve now hit the same level of intelligence as a 2nd grader.
I’m well aware most politicians use prepared speeches. My point is, the man doesn’t speak without one. EVER. The difference here between Bush and say, Clinton or Lincoln, is that those men didn’t RELY on the prewritten speech. They were both able to speak extemporaneously, and often quite well.
As for the “Communist hordes”, I think you (Strabolgi) are overreacting. Indeed, the hordes of Muslims you so worry about aren’t really hordes at all.
I refer the honorable Gentleman to the questions
I gave some moments ago.
And if you cannot see the direction in which you are headed, I pity you.
Give the man a cigar!
Though we (the UK population) could’ve told you what was going to happen 18 months ago. It’s truly dispicable what Bush and his co-horts are up to over there at the minute. Though admittedly we have our own problems over here at the minute with a *President* who thinks that if he ignores people for long enough, the problems will go away.
I think this whole “new world order” shit is gonna spiral outta control just now, and we will really see change in the way we live our lives.
Remember when we used to talk of “the revolution”?
It’s [really] just around the corner…