This week on Tabletop, Alan Tudyk, Jon Heder, and Felicia Day join me for a cooperative game that’s devilishly hard, Forbidden Desert!
A couple of notes for you all, before I get back to preparing for this afternoon’s bacchanal, starting with a comment on r/boardgames, with my reply:
> You move the tiles according to the card you flip, not the “storm”. Nothing too important. But they excavate (flip) tiles that they are not on. This one makes it easier.
I’m really unhappy and annoyed that this happened. I can’t remember every single rule for every game, and if we were playing at home, we’d have the rules next to the table to be sure (we also wouldn’t be playing 21 games in 10 days). I have a producer who is supposed to catch all of this stuff, and ensure that we don’t make mistakes like this, and I think he was stretched a little too thin this season, so if we do a fourth season, I’ll make sure that we hire someone *specifically* to keep an eye on the rules.
I’m annoyed and disappointed that we’ve aired two episodes this season, and we’ve made a rules error on each of them (not such a huge deal in Tokaido, but a huge deal in this one, because we unintentionally made the game much easier on ourselves.) I know there’s a big mistake coming up later this year in Stone Age, too.
Ultimately, the goal of Tabletop is to be entertaining, to introduce people to boardgames, and to get people excited about playing games. If we misunderstand a rule here and there, it’s not the end of the world, because that happens in real life when we play at home, but I do hold my show to a higher standard, for obvious reasons.
I don’t think this is going to get in the way of anyone’s enjoyment, except for the übergamers who nitpick and complain about every mistake or sub-optimal play we make, but I’m honestly not making this show for them, anyway.
That said, I regret making such a massive and fundamental mistake.
Also, you may notice that someone in our graphics department wrote Forbidden Dessert on the thumbnail, instead of Forbidden Desert. On the one hand, this is a simple and basic grammar error that should never have happened. On the other hand, it is pretty hilarious, will obviously be corrected, and gives us something to never let that department live down until the heat death of the universe.
For some of us, today is a holiday about being thankful. For others, it’s a day off from work or school and a chance to eat a lot of food. For the majority, it’s Thursday. Well, whatever today means to you, I hope it’s a good one.
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Good lord, the amount of kvetching is sad.
This game looks like a blast. You had fun. Who gives a horse’s patoot if you messed up? You did it consistently, so no one got an unfair advantage. The only person who I think gets to make fun of you is Matt Leacock. The rest of these nerds need to calm the hell down. I loved the episode.
It’s impossible for someone to get an unfair advantage. It’s a co-op. One player dies everyone loses.
Firstly, I love the show and admit it as the reason I got back in to board gaming a few years ago. I love the format and the light-heartness of the show.
About the rules. Not taking a storm card after every turn and excavating adjacent tiles makes this game artificially easy, and if I were them I’d be itching for a rematch to kick this games butt proper.
In “Forbidden Dessert”, the ‘Sun Beats Down’ card is replaced by the “Death By Chocolate” card. Instead of losing water, you get filled with chocolate. And if you accumulate too much chocolate, you die.
I think the graphics guy was on a diet and couldn’t have sweets, so his desire for them subliminally manifested in his ‘mistake’. Hence, “Forbidden Dessert”.
We are all human Wil. If it means we keep seeing more Tabletop I’m sure we can ALL put up with a few “transgressions” now and again. Heck until recently my little troop have been mucking up the Pandemic rules, (though making it MUCH harder on ourselves). Though it says something that you take your craft so seriously that a mistake such as this bugs you. It means a lot that you take it seriously. Even if it is just a game. And to film that many so closely. Eeesh. I know they are games but that MUST be taxing after a time.
Your show has opened up a whole new world of games for us. I’m a gamer from my high school years (LARP) and have being playing D&D since then as well. So gaming is something that I have done and will always do. Many weekends I’ll come over with a new treasure to share with my usual D&D pals. They’ll ask me what crazy game from your show I’ve brought over lol. Some are BIG hits, some not so much (I love them all personally or I wouldn’t procure them. We’ve gotten the two expansions to Pandemic. Might be something to showcase on the show at some point. While on the Brink has the bio terrorist element which is different (and we haven’t gotten the swing of) and the virulent strain it doesn’t differ MUCH from the original (though boy does it have some bone you cards!) I just got in the lab and that looks like it has a LOT of new elements and mechanics from the original (and one OMG Epidemic card! EESH lol) That would be something to showcase if logistically it would work for filming.
If you ever need a “rules ref” holler lol. Despite our recent lapse (yah great for a resume.) we are pretty good at catching our lapses and officiating rules that are less than clear.
Keep up the awesome work. I hope to see many more seasons of TableTop. It’s really one of the highlights of my week.
On a serious note, it is a shame to see Wil and the rest of the Tabletop crew frustrated by simple rules mistakes which are unfortunately all too common when playing a new board game.
I don’t think the solution is a single rules ref, however. To expect one person to be an expert on all games is unrealistic. You don’t want somebody reffing a game who’s only experience is reading the rules a lot before taping. Rather, each game requires a specific rules ref who is very experienced in the game (optimal choice being the game creator).
The solution takes a little more legwork but is a more solid troubleshooting premise. Basically, days before filming an episode, contact the company that makes the game to be featured in the episode and ask if you can set up a live videochat during taping with the creator, designer, or chief playtester of the game. You’d have the vidchat setup during taping on set and off camera. The online rules ref wouldn’t ‘chat’ so much as keep an eye on the game play and be able to quickly notify the crew/producers to correct any mistakes as they happen before they get permanently committed to video.
All it takes to set up such a videochat is any smartphone or laptop. It can easily be done without interfering aurally or visually with the filming of the episode. Most any game company or creator is going to be helpful if contacted because any game featured in a Tabletop episode is getting free publicity that increases the game’s popularity and sales. I’d bet a lot of game company employees are Tabletop fans anyways. So I think the better solution is getting one person to coordinate different, specific rules refs for different games/episodes rather than expect one person to referee the rules of all games out there. Just my two cents, but I hope it was helpful in seeking a solution to episode-ruining rules mistakes.
Frankly, any rule slip-up was worth it to get an ending that climactic.
(spoilers) Though part of me will always wonder if, had the sun beat down on the last card, would they have cut their losses and taken off without Jeremiah(David)? Maybe we’ll never know.
This is a bit shameless, but: may I apply for the job of rules lawyer? My qualifications: I live in Los Angeles. I teach board games constantly, usually to non- or very new gamers. I actually enjoy reading the rules and learning new games. And I’m an actual lawyer.
I didn’t worry too much about it because while you made THAT much easier on yourselves you made some other things much HARDER on yourselves – i.e. giving water to each other at any time, regardless of actions would’ve made some of your water troubles vanish, and the solar shield affects the player until their next turn, not the tile you use it on. so you didn’t all have to scramble back to that one tile, and that player could hang out in the sun all they wanted (With anyone else along for the ride with them
guess what I’m saying is screwing up rules happens all the time to everyone and usually it evens out.
1) One of my early school memories is of the Principal (the one who is your “Pal”, not the princiPLE) coming in and teaching us the difference in spelling between those two words and the words desert and dessert- Which one do you want more of? Why the deSSert of course!
2) We get a family game from Santa every year and this year is Forbidden Desert. We love Forbidden Island and I’m hoping that the two are different enough to make the new game interesting.
New project for self: Design “Forbidden Dessert” game. Note 1) Should use real Desserts. Note 2) Do NOT store Ice Cream on your Game Shelf.
Wil, its charming that messing up a rule upsets you so much, but, speaking as a very long time games nerd, rules get messed up, as long as everyone plays by the same rules, its fine. Since its a co-op game, its literally impossible for one person to get an advantage due to a misinterpretation. That being said, it did make the game easier, so I’d call it a draw rather than a win for y’all leaving you with a 0/2/1 record vs Matt Leacock. ;P
Dibbs?! I dibbs that rule taskmaster job. haha. 10 days straight of shooting, i would take time off of work for that.
I was a bit bugged that the game was so much easier for the show, but only because you claimed a win against the game or its maker. Honestly the goof works well for first time players, getting people into the show, and filming in general.
Wil and team,
I wasn’t really a fan of table top games … until I started watching your show. I really dug The Wil Wheaton Project on Scifi, and was shocked and disappointed when it was renewed. But luckily it led me to TableTop! Your series is absolutely entertaining, and “mistakes” don’t bother me, though I appreciate the corrections. I may not know much about producing a show, but I can tell that yours has great writing, editing, professionalism, and overall chemistry that really make it work. Keep up the awesome robo… er, work!