you can’t pay your rent with “the unique platform and reach our site provides”

Posted on By Wil

A very nice editor at Huffington Post contacted me yesterday, and asked me if I would be willing to grant permission for the site to republish my post about the seven things I did to reboot my life.

Huffington Post has a lot of views, and reaches a pretty big audience, and that post is something I’d love to share with more people, so I told the editor that I was intrigued, and asked what they pay contributors.

Well, it turns out that, “Unfortunately, we’re unable to financially compensate our bloggers at this time. Most bloggers find value in the unique platform and reach our site provides, but we completely understand if that makes blogging with us impossible.”

I translated this on Twitter thusly:

This set me off on a tiny bit of a rant:  

I’m very lucky to not need exposure or “reach” or anything like that, at least not right now and not this way. I’m also very lucky to be able to walk away from things like this because I believe it’s the right thing to do. If I’d offered this to Huffington Post for nothing, because I hoped they’d publish it, that would be an entirely different thing, because it was my choice.

I don’t know what the going rate is for something like this. At six cents a word, which is SFWAs lowest professional rate for short fiction (not a perfect comparison, but at least something to reference that’s similar), it would be $210. That’s not nothing, but it’s not house payment money. Maybe I should have just taken their fabulous offer of exposure?

I don’t think so, because it’s the principle of the thing. Huffington Post is valued at well over fifty million dollars, and the company can absolutely afford to pay contributors. The fact that it doesn’t, and can get away with it, is distressing to me.

The exchange I had with this editor wasn’t unpleasant, and I know that she’s doing what her bosses tell her to do. I don’t blame her for the company policy. If I’d brought this to Huffington Post and asked the site to publish it, it would be an entirely different situation, I think, (I already posted it on my Medium account, anyway), but this is one of those “the line must be drawn here” things for me. I don’t know if I made the right call, but I do feel good about standing on principle, and having an opportunity to rant a little bit about why I did.

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Comments (947)

  1. Thank you for doing this. As a jewelry designer, I am constantly being asked to donate to silent auctions and celebrity swag events without compensation. Apparently, letting celebrities get your work for free is a great honor. I don’t need that kind of “exposure”- I need to pay my bills. It’s insulting!

  3. It’s through this life you travel, you meet some funny men. Some rob you with a six-gun, and some with a fountain pen. (Or, you know, an email…)

  4. I agree totally, unfortunately the lure of exposure is huge to a new writer and even established ones. I am a blogger and freelance writer. Even though I could use the work I steadily refuse low paying jobs and the offer to write for free. I applaud you for taking a stand.

  5. It’s only really worth something when it’s original material. When you published it on your blog, it lost value. Why would HuffPost, or anyone else, pay for something that is freely available? I used to run a very small lit journal and I paid the authors for the work I published so I know where you’re coming from, but the first thing I’d do before accepting a piece would be Google the first line. If the piece was published on their own site or elsewhere, I’d pass and move on.

  6. I have read many of your posts on here and facebook. I wanted to thank you for this one. Keep up the writing and let us know how all of these changes keep helping you.

  7. As a sometime writer with a day job, I waffle about this. I once had some minuscule income from how-to sites (not my main genre, but the one I found that paid), but those mostly dried up in the last few years, or wanted exclusive rights, which was not possible because I had published some content on multiple sites. I am looking for where to go next to find an audience for clearly written instructions without too much technical jargon that actually pays.

    Any recommendations? Or are there any of you out there interested in creating something that provides better vetted instructions than EHow?

  8. The worst part for me is that people keep getting convinced that exposure and credit has value, and they keep doing it. Marketing companies ask me to photograph for free, large bands expect music sites to send photographers unpaid, and it makes people feel like they have to work for free or cheap to get anywhere, and makes everyone else think that they don’t need to pay anyone.

  10. As a photographer I get this a lot too!! So many people think its okay to ask for free photography or graphic art in trade for “exposure” or “portfolio building”. Its kind of insulting.

    I mean, really… if I am going to expose myself I am going to be paid for it…. 😉 LOL

    On a serious note though, its a shame that some people are okay with doing that. I myself value my work and time, and unfortunately exposure doesn’t put food on the table. I think its a great thing that you called them out on it and made more people aware of it.

  11. 1) My first freelance design job ($100) was “successfully” completed and published but I was never paid!

    2) Worked for years in NYC for companies like Victoria’s Secret who would hire a middle”man” that would pay me (minus a $25 per hour fee)!

    Companies contracted to avoided all taxes & benefits this way.

      1. The very same thing happened to me with my first freelance job. Back in ’94, I was hired by an art director who was working with Polaroid to put together packaging for a line of hologram stickers. The stickers were going to feature several characters from the X-Men. So, on top of everything else, I was also working with Marvel Comics. Now, I was JUST out of high school and no one had yet given me the heads-up to request a contract to seal the deal. So, being 18 years old and stupid, I never did this.

        This resulted in 5 of my best illustrations to that date featuring Cyclops, Colossus, Rogue, Wolverine (of course) and Gambit. I was told I’d get $300 per illustration, whether they were used or not because I’d done the work.

        Well, 21 years have passed and I’m still shy $1500. The art director apparently was fired for holding up artwork from another job. Before I’d found out that part, I’d called the people at Polaroid just to find out how things were going. When the AD found out I’d called them, he blamed his getting fired on me, then quite literally skipped town. Ignored my phone calls and was never home when I stopped by. Screwed right outta high school. : P

      2. It’s not theft if you agree to it and no one is forcing you to do it. You’re providing the “middleman” a service (doing the job they subcontracted to you) and they’re doing you a service (finding you work and taking responsibility if it turns out badly.)

        1. I agreed to the work, they agreed to pay me for it. They left with the artwork and I never got paid. My downfall, admittedly, is that I didn’t sign a contract (so, no, I was not subcontracted). So, theft was involved. I managed to hold on to copies of the original work, with the exception of the Gambit piece, since I finished that one last.

          The rest are probably destroyed by now.

    2. I used to be a sign painter. I specialized in pin striping and lettering on vehicles. A friend that raced cars told me that if I lettered his car for nothing, I could put my company name on it, and get more work. It worked, sort of. I became known as the guy that would do your lettering for free if you let him put his company name on your vehicle. Lesson learned.

  12. I agree with what you are saying WW for the most part… Exposing HP in a negative manor, however, creates “interest” in HP. This leads to sales for HP due to your stance right here, right now because of your pop status. Now if you said X has refused to pay for services rendered then that would be more relevant to me because I agree with what you have to say and believe it should be left at that. An idea to spread, no money for the wicked.

    Companies like HP work with these tactics in mind. They boardroom the crap out of it. Don’t fall for it. Lest ye be shillin’

    /my2c

  13. Exposure and link backs can build your audience and search rankings though, which could eventually help pay your bills if you are able to take advantage of that in some way.

    2. Yes and no!! You’re not wrong for the most part, but I feel in this case, Wil already has his fanbase and audience. Huffington Post linking back would have increased a few page views but for the most part not many would become regular readers.

    4. if Huffington won’t pay, who will? That exposure is pointless if even multimillion dollar companies won’t pay you.

    5. Jumping off a boat in the middle of the ocean can make you a stronger swimmer, which could help you make the olympics if you are able to make it back to shore.

  17. Unless you’re a stripper, exposure doesn’t pay the electric bill or put food on the table. I refuse to contribute to HuffPo for that reason. I do write for some sites without monetary compensation (BLUNTmoms, primarily) but as a cadre writer on their team, I’m paid with stellar editorial support and friendships among a fantastic tribe of like-minded writers—both are valuable assets to my career and my life in general. The biggest difference, though, is that BLUNTmoms wants to pay their writers and is actively taking steps toward being able to do that one day soon, but HuffPo totally can and does/will not pay writers for content while they’re making millions off of the views and advertising. It’s disgusting.

  20. As the Joker says in “the dark knight”, if you’re good at something, never do it for free.

  21. Kudos to you! Would they expect their cleaning crew to work for free just to have the pleasure of cleaning up after them? Do they expect their landlords to give them free space just for having the pleasure of that company in their building? Etc. that’s bullsh*t. They get ad revenue etc. The less they pay to the people who bring in readers the more they shove in their greedy pockets. Good on ya and I, for one, won’t be reading their mag anymore.

  22. Im a small print magazine publisher, and while I do pay the contributors something, its not a living wage. I intentionally seek out people who have full time jobs doing something else and who write about my industry as a hobby (the beer industry), so that I can pay them something without them feeling under compensated (as a professional writer or journalist surely would). Sometimes I get a contributor who is looking to move up to a full time position, and is willing to work for low wages to pad their portfolio in order to move to a larger company, and some have done just that. I am happy to be a marker in their journey (looking at you Em Sauter).

    Question; Do you see the print and writer industry heading back to the direction of staff writers and beat reporters, or do you guys think that social media has killed the journalist star?

    Cheers,

    1. So, there are plenty of people who start out doing free copy, perhaps an article for a local weekly paper or ad copy for a friend. But then once you gain some experience, HuffPo, one of the most viewed and most profitable markets out there, doesn’t want to pay, either.

      I love these people who promise “exposure.” But exposure to what end? No one who ever talks about exposure being a positive thing ever gives you any clue when the paying markets are going to show up.

    2. Kudos for giving your contributors something. It’s one thing for a small publisher who isn’t making a big profit to look for writers who may need to develop their resume but it’s another thing for a company with the ad revenue and profits the likes of HP to not pay contributors. Note, they don’t even want to give their contributors ‘something’ — not even the standard low pay internet pay that many sites cough up — they want it all for free.

    3. Personally, I believe social media has killed the journalist star. Publications like HuffPo rake in millions in revenue, but they are too cheap to pay people to use their materials, unless it’s AP or Getty.

  23. More and more companies are expecting people to work for free, write for the exposure, do an internship so “maybe we’ll hire you” College internships are a mind-bendingly incredible paradigm. Nearly every student has to do an internship, which means, for example, that I paid $800 (the price of a class) for my son to work for a company for free. How brilliant is that? He did not learn much about marketing, the premise for the internship–to learn about the job he wants to do–he drove around about a 100 mile radius putting flamingos in people’s yards and taking them out again, he set up a database for them (his idea), took pictures and sent them out at a fundraising event, opened mail…basically doing a job that someone would be paid minimum wage for. But he wasn’t paid, and he is one of the thousands of students in this country who do this because without this experience, they can’t graduate college.
    Many who want to break into the writing or fashion industry in NYC do unpaid internships post-graduation with the carrot of an actual job dangled in front of their unpaid noses.
    All of which is to say, Mr. Wheaton, that your experience of the Huffington Post offering you the favor of printing your article for no pay, but for the “exposure,” is but a symptom of a rabid malady foisted on young people (and probably older as well) today in the U.S.

  25. I was general manager of a Toyota dealership. Every year we had someone offer to drive a brand new truck from our dealership so that we could have “exposure.” Excuse me? That’s as silly, in my mind, as HP. Good discussion, everyone. Thanks for civil comments, even when we disagree.

  26. Reminds me of an article I read in Muzzleloader Magazine about certain “History-“, “Learning-“, “Discovery-“, and educational-based channels that would try to get historic reenactors to do shoots for free for their shows…… this was when they were actually running historical and educational programs and not reality tv shows or shows about aliens……. Or worse, one production company would hire a reenactment group and pay them scale (Hollywood Minimum Wage for actors) for a documentary they were shooting, and another, completely unaffiliated production company would set up and film them without paying them. Sort of piggy-back off the first company, then use the footage in their own shows without even so much as crediting the reenactors. According to the author of the article, he found out later that production executives at these big cable tv companies would refer to such shenanigans as “found money” when they could get footage for free. I believe the proper term is “theft”. The reenactors have spend years researching their clothes, equipment, and techniques. They are professional living history interpreters, many with degrees in their chosen eras of history (meaning they spent money on college tuition to earn them). They are scholars, they are archaeologists, they are teachers and college professors who are paid for their knowledge and expertise in other areas of life. And yet, the entertainment and edu-tainment industries do not seem to place the same value on their skill and knowledge.

    As a general rule, no matter what you do, if a movie studio or production company wants something from you, then they can pay you for your time, skill, and knowledge just like anyone else. And don’t even get me started on the times people claiming to work on a tv show have wanted me to do repair work on chain mail armor for my “name in the credits for the exposure.”…. Yeah, no. I’ll need at least 10 per hour plus the cost of materials if you want that hole in the chain mail shirt fixed that your actor popped a few rings out of…… really shouldn’t take more than an hour (so $10) and the stainless steel rings I have to buy by the pound for (quick look online at my favorite supplier…… 0.43 lbs is currently running $6.35…. plus shipping… figure about $8 minimum shipping and handling…. so 10+ 6.35 + 8 = 24.35….. tax here is 8%…. so that makes it about $26.30…. and I suppose since I’m not using ALL that 0.43 lbs of rings, I could knock that down to an even $25 to patch a few popped rings in a plain European 4:1 weave stainless steel shirt made of 16 ga. 5/16 internal diameter rings…)…. So they’re basically telling you, that even a moderately successful production company….. like say Tribune Entertainment and Fireworks Entertainment that was making the tv series….. oh for arguement’s sake “Andromeda” starring Kevin Sorbo….. that say hypothetically was picked up by Sci-Fi Channel…. couldn’t afford to pay…. oh let’s say ME…. $25 to patch up Tyr Anazazi’s, played by Keith Hamilton Cobb, chainmail shirt because the actor flexed a little to hard and popped a few rings out……. Yeah, that’s bullshit. (I should add that I don’t know if these two guys ACTUALLY worked on the production crew or not, or if they just wanted me to do a free repair job for their Renaissance Faire costume….. but it doesn’t really matter because…..)

    No matter what you do, if someone else finds value in it, you deserve to be paid for your time, your expertise, your experience and skill at your craft. You deserve compensation for your art. Even if it’s only a measly $25 for an hour’s work.

  27. I totally agree with you, Will. It’s one thing to publish something on the Net that is a small venue or your own which the owner may or may not be making money on. But companies that are monetizing their sites and making profits (making print business obsolete) ought to be paying their contributors. Why do they think just because they are on the web they deserve a free ride? Ms. Huffington has capitalized on the familiarity of the site by being called in to speak to many places. I doubt she does them for free. It’s disgusting that she doesn’t pay the people without whom she wouldn’t be making any money on HP.

  28. The best line I’ve heard is when I worked for a nonprofit and was approaching a band to play at a benefit concert (free). The punchline was
    Me: ” but it would be great exposure”
    Banjo player “yeah, don’t people DIE of exposure?”

  29. I think you made the right call. More people need to stand up for themselves financially, because you’re right, this isn’t rent money, they approached you, and they can pony up for content. If more people have confidence in the work, maybe they’ll get paid for it.

  30. I actually don’t write for blogs, gaming sites, or sports journals to pay rent; I contribute to sites because it is my creative outlet and has been since the turn of the century.

    But that is because I have a career that has led me to be relatively financially secure enough to allow me to pursue my other interests on my own terms without the need to monetize in the short term.
    I glory in my amateur status that once lauded the credentials of the professional arena.

    You may find yourself in Will’s shoes where you are absolutely justified in needing compensation for your time and services.
    You are justified in being compensated for your work.

    But don’t let that discourage or dissuade you from adding to a conversation and voicing your own opinion on subject matter you are passionate about. Don’t let loss aversion prevent you from inspiring and leading others.

    When you receive an offer:
    Consult your head, but follow your heart, and there is your answer.
    If compensation must be had, then you cannot settle for less than you feel comfortable with.
    If you can afford to give for free, then give freely and as much as you feel comfortable with.

  31. you absolutely made the right call. the people who refuse TED talks? they make the right call, too.

  32. Wil, I SO hear you on this. I’ve gotten this same “line” from TheMarySue and a few other sites that “love” my writing but don’t love it enough to pay for it, while at the same time gathering in wads of money in advertising. I have a very short response to such cheesy “offers”: No, I don’t work for free.

    Good on you for your response.

    Best regards,

    CCPetersen (aka TheSpacewriter)

  33. Thank you for the article Wil. I think many bloggers have been through this. I guest blog a few times a year but if it is on a large commercial site I make sure I get paid for it. One site a few months ago came to me asking me to write articles for them and then told me they would let me know if the article I submitted would be chosen for publication. I said, “are you f’ing kidding me, you want me to spend 3-4 hours writing an article for you, not get paid and then maybe you would publish it?!” I politely told them to pound dirt. Thank you for the vent, I have never publicly brought that up.

  34. As a gamer, I am sure you have experienced similar attitudes towards the professions in online gaming. There is a lack of appreciation of both the value of the time spent by the player in developing the profession, and the value of their time in selling the product of it. There is this strange notion in a lot of multiplayer games that the person selling the product is wrong for wanting to actually make gold or credits from their time. In the games, the attitude develops because people are so used to the products of people leveling their professions selling them cheap, or at a loss.

    Sort of like editors being used to writers being willing to sell their work at a loss to develop their careers. But it isn’t just diminishing the value of the writers, it is diminishing the value of the editors and proofreaders as well. If all an editor does is look for interesting articles to publish, they completely leave out their role in developing piece, getting them to the right length, determining the vocabulary and grammar complexity level appropriate to their readers.

  35. Thank you for drawing that line. You absolutely made the right decision. As another person who works for a living and needs to pay the rent with money, thank you.

    Decisions like these may not be easy, but they help all of us. And I think talking about them is important, too, so thanks for this post.

  36. In the beginning of the social internet (the web was a gleam in Ted Nelson’s eye) it was all cooperative, and people weren’t paid because there was no money in it and, anyway, people didn’t spend much time on net content.

    Now, hell yes the brokers and publishers should pay! Decent pay. The Huff should pay its writers and photographers. Uber should pay a living wage (when you count in use of their driver’s private cars, they’re skinflints), Airbnb ditto. No, unh-unh, no.

  37. I wish the people who tell me I’m an incredible photographer weren’t the same people who flatly ignore my posts when I mention booking a shoot on my page. Meanwhile, it’s 10/27, and I have no idea if I’ll have a place to live on 11/1.

  40. What upsets me even more is that Arianna Huffingpost proclaims herself and her site as being progressive. How very progressive to have a policy of not paying people for their contributions to her site!

  41. People often assume that if you love what you do, you must be willing to do it for free. It is precisely the loving it that made you so damned good at IT (whatever IT, is). I’m not an artist, but a nerd. I have expertise in some niche areas involving signal processing and astrophysics. I’ve had people ask me to do stuff that would involve potentially 20, 30, 40, maybe even 100 hours of work. Brain-burning, creative, magnificent work. “Oh, I can’t pay you. Can’t you do it for the love of science?” What they actually mean is “if you do this, MY career will be helped immeasurably”. Fark, as they say, that. I do free work from time to time, particularly when the folks needing the work are themselves “starving, underfunded researchers.” But when I’m certain that the person asking has the resources to pay me, I simply walk if they won’t. I fortunately have a insanely-horrific “day job” to keep me from starving.

  42. Excellent post. You’re certainly there as a writer. Always trust your instincts and gut feelings about whether or not to do something. That way you have less baggage to carry on your journey through life.

  43. As a professional musician for over 35 years, I heartily concur with your assessment of the situation. Musicians are asked to play “for exposure” all the time – at commercial establishments like bars and restaurants. You can’t pay for nuthin’ with exposure. Thanks for holding the line for all of us who produce “intangibles” like music, art and the written word.

  44. The same when people/ organizations would ask me to sing for free stating, “It’s great exposure for others to see your talent.” So, if I have such a grest talent, pay me for it…. Somple as that!

  46. I think it’d be one thing if it was some generic article, but it was you baring your soul about your struggles, realizations, and changes you strive to make. They should pay.

  47. WoW addon devs use to be able to charge for their work. In 2010, Blizzard decided they didn’t like it and used their attorneys to threaten the devs. Today, even a donation link will get you attacked. Thousands of hours of work and they use the threat of lawsuits to keep things free… well, until they steal the concept outright… also without compensation. (I’m a bit raw & salty after the ordeal)

  48. I appreciate that you made the distinction between them coming to you and you coming to them in regards to getting paid. Someone without an audience would definitely get some value out of a big outlet like HuffPo publishing their work, so the compensation would be there if the writer were courting the publisher in that scenario. However, if they’re coming to you, that changes the equation dramatically. Especially considering that you might already have one or two people who actively follow your posts…

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