you can’t pay your rent with “the unique platform and reach our site provides”

Comments (947)

1. I’d pay you just to spite HuffPo $75 plus https://randomnerds.com/patronizing/

   Also, it helps that I like your post 😀

2. Hi Wil, your comments are spot on. I also recommend that you, and everyone else, read Jaron Lanier’s book “Who Owns the Future”. He discusses this issue in depth, and explains why and how it is happening. It’s worth the read, and quite illuminating.

3. It’s a pretty easy question to ask publishers: “Why is it ok for you to make money off my work, but not me?”

4. A saying we have in photography is that is that you can die from exposure.

5. Twice a year NY fashion week rolls into town and They ask ifi I would like to assist on doing hair ( I am an established hair dresser) I did it in my 20’s because it was fun and the parties and the swag and they paid you a stipend (very little cash, like 50-100). These days there are no gift bags, no pay, and they stress what an “honor” it is to be asked. NO THANKS!

6. Yes, you absolutely did the right thing. In a perfect world anybody who creates something would do the same thing. Unfortunately some (well, a lot of) people do not ask for compensation and this situation makes it harder for professionals. Thank you, Wil Weaton, for standing up for what is yours.

7. Gotta be honest… I opened this post hoping you were the kid from Star Trek Next Generation 😀 Regardless, I support Wil Wheaton.

   1. Um… he is the kid from Star Trek.

   2. You’re pretty. That’s all you’ve got going.

      1. AJ, don’t be a dick.

         1. Thank you.

   3. Duh!

8. Exactly, Wil!

   A while ago, an editor asked me, “What’s the most irritating question editors ask you.” I answered, “Will you write it for free?”

   As Samuel Johnson said, “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”

9. The same thing happens in computer programming. The unenlightened think they can replace you with their 15 year old neighbors’ kid, because… Code. It’s all the same, right? Would you fly on a plane where the software was written by people with no expertise? (but hey, they were cheap!)

   1. Their 15 year old neighbor has a kid that can code?? Color me impressed. I’d give that toddler a job any day. Sorry I couldn’t resist the urge to make that bad joke. . .

10. II respectfully disagree. There are all sorts of currency besides cash. HuffPo is offering wide exposure. This currency has no value to you because you are already famous. For me it would have value until (or if) exposure is no longer something I need.

    1. Get a grip, it’s a global corporate entity with plenty in the coffers. They make, I’m guessing nearly all, if not all their revenue from ads on their blog posts. This is a bigger issue than aspiring writers trying to make it, and is in fact perpetuating the problem. If a $50 million organisation can’t afford to pay you when you are aspiring, who do you think is going to pay you when you have “made it”? Chose your volunteer work responsibly.

       1. Exactly, David. I have a friend who is a phenomenal Flamenco guitarist, as in will make you lose yourself in the music sort of good. And yet people ask him to come and play their wedding or event for free and then get upset when he says he’s not interested. “It’s just for an hour or two, come on, why do I need to pay you since you love to play?” facedesk

          1. I would not mind if the response was … “Well, since you ask it that way, I can only conclude one thing. You are a social parasite. And no, I do not play my music for social parasites. Now begone, before I am forced to use Raid.”

    2. Remember the writers’ strike a few years ago – when TV shows all went on hiatus for months? That’s the kind of action writers need to take everywhere. Your words, your talent, your ideas – they have WORTH, and if the Huffington Post likes your words enough to want to share them – to give them exposure – they shouldn’t have any problem paying you a fair price for the time and effort you put into creating that piece of writing. If we all stopped allowing our work to be “exposed” for free, the environment would change. If they couldn’t get free words from writers anymore, they’d be forced to pay SOMEONE to create content, and others would follow suit.

    3. Except that exposure is temporary and fleeting at best in today’s ADHD world. Exposure doesn’t pay the bills and when the county wants my property taxes my exposure isn’t going to prevent them from selling my house from under me. Rarely does one-time exposure lead to long-term success or gigs for writers or bloggers. Simply put if you work, you deserve to get paid. Every person who writes for free makes it harder for everyone else to get paid further on done the line.

       1. Am I missing something? We’re talking about a personal blog post, that he wrote for HIMSELF. It got recognized. They asked. He said no on principal. Fine. But can we stop comparing apples and oranges?? Doug is right. Some people want and need the exposure and if it’s THAT, or nothing, the exposure is worth SOMETHING. Maybe it leads to one client who leads to another. Maybe nothing, but it has more potential than NO EXPOSURE. bottom line is, there will always be someone else who can fill the shoes… I.e., if not that (“your”) article, they’ll find another one. Sometimes you have to pay your dues and “work for free” if you choose a field as competitive as anything artistic, which writing could be categorized in… Quit hating the players and hate the game. Whining about people who deal with the hands being dealt is only hurting yourself.

    4. Good luck paying the bills on speculation/exposure.

    5. Doug, the thing is, as Wil pointed out, Huffpo absolutely can afford to pay you cash, in addition to the exposure.

    6. Right and musicians should play for free because of exposure. People who get lost in bad weather and found dead are said to die of exposure.

    7. Why isn’t a person entitled to get both exposure AND a fee? Maybe the payment wouldn’t be as high as it would be for someone with a lot of experience, but they are doing work nonetheless.

    8. Wil addressed your take on things with: “If I’d offered this to Huffington Post for nothing, because I hoped they’d publish it, that would be an entirely different thing, because it was my choice.” You’re willing to take that other “currency,” he is not. That’s all.

    9. I’ve never read anything on Huffington Post and thought, “Who wrote this? I wonder if they have similar work elsewhere.” I’ve always just presumed that they were authors contracted by HP who were writing the article based upon the request by HP.

       As sad as this ignorance sounds, I can’t say that I won’t make the mistake again in the future. Generally, when I see work done, unless it’s one of the 3 best things I’ve seen that year, I won’t seek the creator out. The idea of working for exposure, when being exposed to an audience like me, is akin to working for a lottery ticket.

11. Thank you Wil for sharing this and especially for including photographers as part of the creative community too. I quite often get these sorts of requests for my photos from people and businesses which can quite easily afford to pay a usage fee which is quite reasonable and seem offended when I politely bring up the issue of financial compensation for its use.

12. This reminds me very much of the position that unpaid interns are in as well, and I am glad to see you are not willing to give away your writing for free to a for profit entity. In a small way you hep folks like myself who do not have name recognition, but would like to feel like our time is valued as well.

    1. I have to respectfully disagree, Jammie. The difference is that an unpaid intern has made that decision to work for free, in exchange for the experience, much like Wil’s example of having offerred to write the blog for free. No one is forcing an intern to take that position – if you want to be compensated, or want benefits, or recognition, then look for a paying job.

       1. Interns produce value for an employer. Maybe not as much as fully a trained person but something. And they are working for free. So, the employer is getting a good deal. It might be that an intern is learning something useful and gaining connections, etc. But we all know that employers take on interns for scut jobs they can’t get anyone else to do. If it ends up that the intern gets good experience or lands a job because of it – that’s great. We all know that isn’t what happens most of the time.

          Also, saying that someone should “look for a real job” if they want to be compensated is like blaming the poor for being poor – actually that’s exactly what it is come to think of it. If an intern had been able to get a job where she/he was being paid they wouldn’t be looking to be an intern. We all have a theoretical ability to do anything we want, work wherever we want. But if there aren’t any jobs or they’re too far away or they don’t pay enough to make ends meet then it isn’t really much of a choice.

13. I wrote to Huffpost to register my disappointment with them. You mentioned SFWA in the article. Many small literary journals pay their writers. They often rely on donations to fund their entire operations, yet they still manage to pay at least $.06 a word, often more. For Huffpost, a globally profitable corporation, to pay nothing is unacceptable.

    I have faced the same “work for free” model as a musician. Unfortunately, I live in New York, where there are thousands of musicians who will do it just for the “exposure.” I have stopped playing live as a result, making my living from licensing instead (which has its own issues). I just wasn’t willing to work for free or for peanuts.

    Anything which other people value (writing, music, art, etc.), should be eligible for compensation. The employer has the right to determine what they want, and seek those who can provide it, but has to be willing to provide fair remuneration for those services. I’m giving you something you value, and you’re paying me. It’s an exchange. You are not doing me a favor.

14. I believe you should be paid in this case and you are right for what you did. While some of us bloggers have to earn our way up (and I am not complaining about it just accepting it) those who have built a name for themselves should be compensated for what they do.
    After all the HP is going to use your fame to help build their company and reach. So you should be compensated for it.

15. I began my current events writing career with an on-line magazine Examiner.com. But, at most, I made about $10-$20 a month while publishing maybe an article every couple of days. I got some exposure, but not that much. One month I had an article launch into the tens of thousands of readers, and made maybe $100. This is pocket change for a week.

    Finally, I decided to publish my articles on my own blog – liberalsbackwardsthink.com – and shortly was getting a few hundred readers a day instead of a few dozen. I don’t make anything from it, I actually have to pay for it, but my opinion articles get much more exposure. When they found out about my blog, Examiner dumped me… and then they dumped over a thousand articles I had written for them. So the moral here is; publish for yourself because on-line publishers can erase your entire works.

    I haven’t been picked up by an publishers, but I do offer some unique insights into current events that few, if any, are expressing in their articles.

16. I have a good friend, political activist, homeless advocate who writes for the HuffPo regularly and I have never understood it. Arieanna is a billionaire for chrissake! Pay the writers you cheapskate!!! Thanks for sharing this Will, big fan!

17. Tim Kreider said it better than I can
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/opinion/sunday/slaves-of-the-internet-unite.html

18. I totally relate to this! so many times, I get a million inquiries asking me to write about such and such a topic “for exposure” and a “chance” to be featured on the brand’s social channels like that’s something to be coveted. I feel like, despite the fact that employees are just doing their jobs, a lot of PR and other brands seem to have this idea that bloggers and writers should have to work for scraps because they’ve blessed us with their presence. Nobody should work for free; I stand by this as I have done since the inception of my blog and I’ll continue to do so. Fair wage is not just a thing in the normal employment world, but also in the blog world too. awesome post

19. A writer friend shared this with me and I applaud you! I also thought it was sneaky (in a cool way) that you included a line from Star Trek in your post, “The line must be drawn here.” Isn’t that what Captain Picard said to Lily in “First Contact?” 🙂

20. I love the response to that request: “You can die of exposure.” Thanks for standing up!

21. Ridiculous situation. And as a small time artist and blogger quite insulting as well.

    For the sake of proving a point I offer $250 to republish that article on one of my own sites. Huffpost might be too poor but I am not /s

22. Agreed. I wrote an article that got syndicated on Mashable and Gizmodo. They both asked for my permission, and it never even occurred to me to ask for money, until I realized they’d made reasonable bread off my work, while I just had my traffic split, and my original blog still far exceeded them in hits and google results.

    It’s strange to think that after ten years of trying to make money writing, and despite pushback like this from the shrinking community of people actually creating content for the infinite whirlpool of redistribution, I reflexively said, “Oh, yeah, take it.”

23. I think HuffPo should publish this piece. It’s great exposure for Arianna–in another sense of the word, at least.

24. All Newspapers are in serious trouble. They are not doing themselves any favors by paying quality contributors only with exposure. What does it say about the quality level of the work if the only work being presented is from people just looking to get their name out there. I’m not saying some of those folks might not be good but I am betting the majority are pretty rough.
    Their days are numbered. The changing of the guard has begun.

25. In other news, The Oatmeal handled having their content ripped off pretty well: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/27/having-a-cat-vs-having-a-baby_n_8397662.html

    1. Huffington Post has proven time and time again they don’t care about their writers or their content.

       You should check out Random Nerds’ Patronizing model. It lets readers tip authors at the end of each piece: http://rndnerds.com/1Gr7bDn

26. Good for you, Wil. HuffPost did the same thing to The Oatmeal except he was able to school them for stealing his content. The page has since been updated saying “CLARIFICATION: The original version of this story included some linked images to the original comic. These have now been removed at the request of the artist.” Lol. https://www.facebook.com/theoatmeal/photos/a.10150413121115078.628758.220779885077/10156234087790078/?type=3&theater

27. Will, you just became my hero. When HuffPo was getting its Gay Voices section up and running I was contacted to participate. I asked if there would be financial compensation. When the answer was ‘none,’ I ended the conversation. I would have taken much, MUCH less than the SFWA rate. All I was interested in was at least a token amount that I could show my spouse and say ‘See, I’m not getting rich off of this, but my activism writing is earning something for us.’ Don’t tell me Ariana doesn’t have the money to compensate writers at all levels.

28. I understood everything you wrote, except “I don’t know if I made the right call…” Why is that in there?

29. Will, you are 100% correct. Like you, I am an actor / writer / entertainer, though not nearly as accomplished. It is a continuing frustration that people think “exposure,” which in the Huffington Post’s case is legit, but in many cases is not, or the ubiquitous “credit, copy and meals” is fair compensation for what someone’s work. While other professionals do work pro bono, it is entirely voluntary. No one engages the services of a doctor, teacher, construction worker, lawyer, accountant or virtually anyone else expecting them to work for free. When that expectation comes from someone who clearly can and should pay for someone’s work, it is all the more frustrating. So thank you for saying NO and standing up for our right to be compensated for our work!

    Randy @ ByTheBodhiTree.com and RandyMarquis.com

30. As the editor of a small magazine, we rely on interns and other sources of unpaid content creation. This is because it’s not enough to have a print magazine anymore. Website content is necessary to stay relevant, and that means we need less-important articles to be uploaded daily in order to increase our web traffic.

    I think that some of our unpaid writers should get paid. I also think that some of the writers that we do pay should not get paid, because the quality just isn’t there. As an editor, if I have to correct multiple grammar and spelling errors, then the writer didn’t do his or her job; that writer did not turn in a professional piece that could have stood on its own two feet.

    There’s a lot of writers out there who think they are really good, but who actually suck. And when you try to give them constructive criticism, they get very insulted and don’t want to listen.

    This is why I don’t mind “testing out” new writers for the magazine. It’s also why I think that the quality of the writing should dictate whether the person gets paid. After 3 consecutive, professional articles with little to no spelling or grammar errors, then you should start getting paid. Until you can turn in 3 consecutive articles like that, then you can keep trying and keep getting exposure. Your articles will still get published, so you at least get to build your portfolio.

    Unfortunately, I’m not the guy in charge. I just edit and assign the articles. I put them online. I barely get paid, myself.

    1. From one editor to another, ” few to no spelling or grammar errors”. Not ” little to no spelling or grammar errors”.

       You’re not wrong about some writers out there sucking and being unable to take constructive criticism from an editor, whose job it is to give it – but that doesn’t mean that content creators who are clearly good enough to be approached by the publisher to contribute shouldn’t be paid for their work. As Wil says, it’s a whole different ball-game when someone approaches a publication offering a piece of work for submission – then, I’d say the publication would be within their rights to offer an unpaid trial period, and if the writer doesn’t agree, then they are free to decline. But that’s not what happened here, and frequently isn’t the case elsewhere.

       1. You’re right. But I wouldn’t put the blame on the editor who declined him. In my experience, the editor is just following orders. Like I said, I’d love to pay some of my writers who aren’t getting paid.

          Also, because Wil’s content was already published, HuffPo wouldn’t have gotten the same boost towards their rankings as if Wil had written a new, original article for them. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t get paid, but there is a distinct difference between republished content and original content. I could see where HuffPo would believe that by republishing the article and providing a link to the original, it would generate a lot of traffic for Wil, which – if Wil was using any ad service – could generate him revenue.

          Long story short: Republishing a piece < Creating original content.

    2. Ironically at paper magazines you get everything proof read and corrected. There’s no need for it to be completely ‘perfect’ because it will always be caught and corrected before it is published. (Although obviously accuracy is desirable). Difference between print and internet publishing. I tried to move into internet publishing but just found the wages lower and the demands higher – I think I’ll hang out where I am for now. 🙂 (Especially since I believe that writing is what you say and how you say it, rather than getting hung up about perfect spelling).

31. Well said! Ironically, you’re probably getting more exposure from shares of this op-Ed piece than you would on huff post!

32. As a counter argument, when it comes to ads exposure /is/ payment. A lot of articles the Huff posts trace back to ad driven sites. So it seems there might be a conflict of models more than principles here. Now running a site that does not insult the visitors with ads is commendable and appreciated. But it may not pay the rent either.

33. Agreed. If you are a professional writer, you deserve to be paid for your abilities. Would they call a surgeon and ask if he would operate on a reporter in return for a free story about the surgery in their publication? And it’s not just writers. Restauranteurs, bakers, wine makers, theater folks—-they are all asked for free wares in exchange for a review or mention in print, broadcast and online. I stopped giving away my work for the exposure several years ago. It was tough, but I know it was the right choice. If I don’t place a value on my work, why should anyone else?

34. Hi, Wil!

    I’m hoping you pay well by the word, because I have a lot to say. (Joking! About the pay part. I do have a lot to say.)

    First, I want to be clear that I completely support your decision, and I think you made the right choice for you, and the fact that you had a pleasant (or at least not unpleasant) conversation with the editor means you handled it well, because as you said, she was just doing her job.

    I have a blog at the Huffington Post, and I’d like to offer my thoughts as well. But I want to reiterate at first: I do believe artists should be paid for their work.

    I started writing books six and a half years ago, summer of 2009. Since then I’ve written eight books and one screenplay, with another book and another screenplay in the works.

    As you, and everyone else reading this, have likely never heard my name, it will be clear I’ve not yet reached the levels of success I may have hoped for.

    And, in fact, about a year ago I started to have a conversation with myself about my success, or lack thereof. “What I am doing right now is not working,” I told myself. “I have to think of something new. Either that, or give up and move on.”

    Well, I wasn’t ready to quit.

    Now, let me back up and say that for all the time I’ve been writing, I’ve been a definite proponent of not working for free. I’ve watched those videos, read those articles, made the arguments, I know the issues. I see some company offering to pay $0.01 per word (“But you can write as much as you want! Endless possibility for income!”) and my blood boils.

    I get it.

    But, as I said, I reached a point where I knew I was going to have to do something different if I hoped to succeed. Banging my head against the same walls was not working. I was feeling completely defeated. Completely. Something had to change.

    (And let me stop here to clarify, I do have a blog at my own website, but it’s not my focus. It’s a place on my website where I can put posts up, but my focus is my books and now my screenplays. I am not trying to make a living off my blog.)

    So when, a few months ago, the opportunity to have a Huffington Post blog presented itself, I was torn.

    On the one hand, I knew all the arguments and had railed against writing for free for much of my writing career.

    On the other hand, I knew that what I was doing wasn’t working, and I needed to try something different.

    I thought long and hard about it, and in the end, I went forward. I now have a Huffington Post blog, with my personal aim of increasing my platform and profile so that when my next book comes out, or if (when) my screenplays ever become movies, I’ll have one more avenue to talk about them.

    But when I decided to get myself set up with this blog, I also set myself some rules and guidelines. First and foremost, one of my personal core values is helping other people. There are so many people out there doing great work who don’t have the opportunity to tell the world about it. With my new platform, I decided, one of my key goals would be to give voice to people I know whose work I believe in.

    And I’ve done that. With great joy I’ve highlighted the work of emerging and established musicians such as Kendall Custer (pop) and Colleen Raney (trad and modern Irish music). I talked with a young, bright entrepreneur who has started her own line of boutique clothing, Love&Bambii. I worked with producer Jonny Paterson to write a four-part series about the upcoming independent film Halfway, written by Ben Caird and starring Quinton Aaron (“The Blind Side”), about the harsh realities of life after prison. I highlighted the work of the Afghan Women’s Writing Project and its collaboration with Shevy Smith and the Passerine Project, which works to give Afghan women and girls safe spaces and opportunities to write and share their stories and their voices with the world.

    Many of these stories would never have been picked up by other outlets, and certainly no paying media would have been interested in some of them, as the topics were not mainstream or famous enough. But the gratitude I received from these wonderful, creative people, working so hard to reach their dreams through their projects and programs, was worth far more to me than any payment I could have been given.

    Another rule I set for myself was that I would only do stories I am interested in. Having a Huffington Post blog has absolutely given me the opportunity to talk to people who wouldn’t have given me a second glance otherwise. Because, let’s face it, there are about two people in the world who care about my blog at pamstucky.com, and they both share my last name and each gave me half their genes. Whereas the interviews I mentioned above were part of my goal to help others, many of the interviews I’ve done with “celebrities,” I’ve done to try to increase my profile. (And, a side note: While it doesn’t drive millions of people to my site, I have definitely seen an increase in traffic, as well as followers.)

    I pick these interviews with care. I’m not interested in interviewing just anyone. In many cases I’ve done interviews with actors who work on shows that are shown on my local PBS — because I believe strongly in the importance of PBS and want to help support them. (Which again harkens back to my core values.) I choose interviewees who I think (and hope) will be interesting. I’m fascinated by people in general, and I love talking with people who are following their dreams. The Q&As I do are, to me, a lot of fun. A lot of work — I always want to ask good questions and so I end up doing a lot of research — but for me, so interesting and fun.

    And further, I see and use this blog as a space in which to practice and post writing samples, to highlight for future (paying) opportunities.

    I don’t write anything on request. I write what I want, when I want. And what’s more, though I’ve been offered bribes (free stuff in exchange for the right to guide story content), I don’t accept them. My blog is completely on my own terms.

    You said:

    “If I’d offered this to Huffington Post for nothing, because I hoped they’d publish it, that would be an entirely different thing, because it was my choice.”

    I think that’s a really important distinction and I appreciate that comment. I still think all the time about my decision, evaluating again and again whether I’m doing the right thing. I do firmly believe artists should be paid for their work. (Ask me how much I’ve struggled about whether to give away ebooks in hopes people will by the next books in the series!) But I also know I haven’t had success so far, and I don’t want to give up just yet. I had to try something new. I still have some reservations, but overall, I’ve actually been quite pleased with the opportunities and connections and results of having my blog. I see it as a networking tool and a marketing tool, as well as an opportunity to have some fun, and in those regards, it is working.

    You also said:

    “This is one of those ‘the line must be drawn here’ things for me.”

    I fully appreciate that as well. Everyone has to draw his or her own line, and do so with thought and intent and conscious, conscientious deliberation. The fact that one person’s line is drawn in a different place from another person’s line does not mean lines have not been consciously drawn. The fact that one person’s line is drawn in a different place from another person’s line also doesn’t mean that either person is stupid or ill informed. My decision has been made with great deliberation and care, and with constant re-evaluation.

    I completely understand where the people who are railing against unpaid work are coming from. I understand the frustrations and I understand the arguments. I am not 100% comfortable with writing for free, but for now I’m willing to continue giving it a try, and I’m doing it with my rules and integrity intact. And I know 100% for certain I’ve helped others (and not just the Huffington Post), made a difference in their work and their lives, by having this blog. And as far as my life values go, that matters. As far as I’m concerned, that is part of what I call success.

    So that’s my side of things.

    One last note, Wil, I saw your Seven Things I Did to Reboot My Life post in my daily email from Medium. Normally I just delete those emails from Medium (too many emails!), but for whatever reason I decided to open that one and read your article (not even noticing until later that you wrote it). It was a great piece, well written, and it resonated highly with me, a timely piece. Thanks for sharing, and best wishes on all your endeavors.

    1. Thank you! I just posted a different but similar toned comment on this piece. I also took the offer from the Huffington Post. I also utilize it as a branding and advertising tool. Crazily enough, I also try to use it to promote others. I have a little piece at the end of almost all of my blogs called “The Epiblog” where I highlight a new artist, creative or person who inspires me. The Huff-Po blog was even the catalyst for a whole new avenue in my career; public speaking and also led to offers to write other pieces that are paid. All in all, I have probably made ten times what I would have been paid per word through the exposure that blog gives me. And most importantly, a young girl decided to not end her own life because of one of those free blogs I wrote. That in and of itself is enough to keep me writing for them. ~ Yes, most of the time “for the exposure” is laughable, but when the audience is millions and you are a virtual unknown, that is game changing.

35. I agree! I sew and people are always asking me to hem their pants or make something for them. And they expect me to do it “just because.” First of all, fabric costs money. You want something made but you expect me to not only pay for materials out of my pocket, but to take my personal time to make something. People don’t understand that things like this (sewing, writing, art of all kinds, etc) take TIME and also take money for supplies. I’ve begun to reply with “I can’t do that for you, but I can teach you how to so you can do it for yourself.” This doesn’t apply to certain things like writing, but you get the idea.

    I wish more people would understand this. You wouldn’t expect to receive goods for nothing, why would services be any different?

36. I respectfully disagree – and have been on both sides of this sort of arrangement. It IS a very nice fit for someone who actually needs exposure. Getting published or developing “real” portfolio pieces can be a challenge, and this is one way to accomplish it. You could see also it as a free ad for the writer/illustrator/photographer. How much would that kind of publicity cost the average creative noob? (a lot!)

    Is it a good fit for someone with a big following? Probably not – unless you feel there’s specific value in the HuffPo audience (I have NO idea how that overlaps w/your current followers). In fact, you’re in a position to say “actually, I feel I’d be sort of advertising for you (HuffPo), so you should pay me.” For a complete unknown, it is the other way around – HuffPo is advertising for them.

    As long as everyone is clear and happy about what the trade is, and its value to them…no harm, no foul – and no reason to shame the transaction.

    I can see where this was a bad fit for you, but ask you to consider barter as applied to creative services 🙂 –and that was an excellent blog post, btw!

37. My response to this offer is usually the same: “People die from exposure.” If I had a nickel for every promoter that offered my bands a show for “the exposure” I could afford my mortgage through just music alone.

38. Great article. You were bang on with your comments. As a stand-up comic I am often asked to perform for free for a good cause. Sorry, just because you are a charity does not mean I wish to become a charity too.

    1. Being asked to be part of a charity event and being asked to perform free at a bar or comedy club that charges cover, has a drink minimum and serves food, are worlds apart. Whereas a charity is doing something not-for-profit and more than likely cannot begin to cover paying event staff, waiters, etc. A club CAN afford to pay you for your time and talent. The focus here was on places that have the means to pay (Huffington Post being values at 50 million) but refuse compensation to those who deserve it. Your charity comparison is not anywhere near the same thing. Frankly, it makes you sound terrible and greedy. Especially if you’re an unknown.

       1. Not to speak for the person you were addressing, but performers, graphic designers, restaurants, etc get hit up by non-profit orgs all the time for either entertainment at or prizes to give away (or auction) at their latest event. They’d go broke if they agreed to do every offer of “exposure”. Now, if you identify with the cause that’s one thing, but when every nonprofit in town is asking a restaurant, performer, retail store, etc for a donation it gets to be too much. I don’t find his comment terrible or greedy.

          Source: I worked in nonprofit, I saw it happen ALL the time. I was told no many, many times.

39. This is a huge problem for classical musicians as well! We spend hours training, spend a ton of money on private lessons, summer music programs, and in the case of instrumentalists on the instruments themselves, and then people just expect us to perform for free and be grateful for the exposure and the chance to perform. It’s maddening.

    1. Well, making that kind of investment in a vocation that regularly gets underpaid is not society’s fault. I assume that you are deriving some other rewards to have put in that much effort. Is it a passion, perhaps?

       People expect musicians to play for free because there are musicians that play for free. You shouldn’t blame “the people”…you should blame your fellow musicians. THAT’s what’s maddening.

       Doing anything for free devalues that discipline as a whole. I don’t see a lot of plumbers, architects, or landscapers doing it for exposure or their portfolios.

40. How apropo! A leftist site that screams about exploitation by others, deems it OK to exploit people who can afford it the least.

41. The Oatmeal had different issues with Huffypost https://www.facebook.com/theoatmeal/?fref=nf

42. I agree with you. I have experienced with a very close friend/partner that works as a producer/camera man/editor/blogger for himself the same thing as well as my own experience with art. Some people want great things for themselves or their business…. For nothing. It seems to circle around creative things too such as art, media (aka books, tv shows, films, news reports. ext), music and so on. As much on the one hand publicity helps get more work in, it still doesn’t help that you have created something of worth right there and then and have taken so much time on it and have it ‘valued’ for nothing.

    I thank you for sticking up for what is right. You are an awesome guy.

43. I happen to agree with you. I am a content creator, and we have produced free content for years, and mostly have lived on ad money, but we don’t want to do ads anymore. We want to be self sufficient, so we started working on courses that teach people how to make videos like we do…and some people don’t like the fact that we are not going to do it for free. I think the internet has people thinking that it does not cost us content creators anything to create this content. All the website hosting costs…video bandwidth etc.

    And all we want to do is cover our expenses…not get rich. I think more people doing what you did would actually help thwart that thinking. All I want to do is create content without having to pretend I like the advertiser I am promoting in order to keep my shit free. I don’t like selling out. Makes me feel dirty. Anyway, I REALLY appreciate what you did. So…now to the rest of the internet…YOUR TIME IS NO LESS VALUABLE THAN THEIRS JUST BECAUSE THEY GET MORE “TRAFFIC”. These sites make a shit ton of ad money, and there is no reason that cannot pay people…other than greed. 🙂

44. I’m a photographer and I love everything about this.

45. I’ve been on a few panels to talk about the economics of working in a creative field. In every single Q&A session, someone will ask about how they can “go pro” as a photographer. They talk about how they let magazines and everyone else use their images for free and now that they got their “exposure” they want to get paid. Problem is, every time you give your work away you teach potential buyers that the work isn’t worth anything. And you make it harder not only for yourself but for everyone in the field to ever get paid for doing that work. Just because you don’t hate doing the work doesn’t mean that it isn’t work. And if you work, you deserve to get paid. Good for you, Wil!

46. True for any and all freelancers (well, for me anyway, and I know people, and…). Ask around in freelancer circles and the vast majority I’m sure will agree. That whole “Exposure!” deal is bogus. Not only does it not pay the rent or your food or anything else, it’s a rip-off. If they think it’s worth publishing, you deserve compensation. “Exposure” is not compensation in any way, shape or form. (Nor is “stock options” or “stake in the startup company” etc.) End of story.

47. As a retired professional photographer the problem is that too many people want the exposure because they’re not truly professional. They want to be able to point to this and say look what I did as opposed to sustain a lifestyle. I worked as a professional for nearly 50 years and it’s sad to see the destruction of my industry for the most part by people who are not qualified to do the job. Most of them are just happy to get in the door. They have destroyed the structure and pricing of the professional photographer and this is also happening in journalism and has destroyed what fashion photography actually is etc etc and that is my rant for the day.

48. Well done! Everyone wants something for free, and there are enough desperate ones who will oblige. That’s why they will continue to ask people to do things for nothing.

49. David Byrne: “Do you really think people are going to keep putting time and effort into this, if no one is making any money?”–http://www.salon.com/2013/12/21/david_byrne_do_you_really_think_people_are_going_to_keep_putting_time_and_effort_into_this_if_no_one_is_making_any_money/

50. This is unfortunately happening to writers all the time. As a fiction author, I was blessed with the honor of writing three novels over the space of a year for a publisher that is owned by a massive, global media corporation. I got a grand payment of drumroll $50 in royalties, in total… I decided to quit writing and get a paper round because I was paid more for delivering newspapers when I was twelve. Apparently, I’m one of the lucky ones o.O (How unlucky are the other ones? Do dragons eat their heads when they write a novel?)

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