you can’t pay your rent with “the unique platform and reach our site provides”

Posted on By Wil

A very nice editor at Huffington Post contacted me yesterday, and asked me if I would be willing to grant permission for the site to republish my post about the seven things I did to reboot my life.

Huffington Post has a lot of views, and reaches a pretty big audience, and that post is something I’d love to share with more people, so I told the editor that I was intrigued, and asked what they pay contributors.

Well, it turns out that, “Unfortunately, we’re unable to financially compensate our bloggers at this time. Most bloggers find value in the unique platform and reach our site provides, but we completely understand if that makes blogging with us impossible.”

I translated this on Twitter thusly:

This set me off on a tiny bit of a rant:  

I’m very lucky to not need exposure or “reach” or anything like that, at least not right now and not this way. I’m also very lucky to be able to walk away from things like this because I believe it’s the right thing to do. If I’d offered this to Huffington Post for nothing, because I hoped they’d publish it, that would be an entirely different thing, because it was my choice.

I don’t know what the going rate is for something like this. At six cents a word, which is SFWAs lowest professional rate for short fiction (not a perfect comparison, but at least something to reference that’s similar), it would be $210. That’s not nothing, but it’s not house payment money. Maybe I should have just taken their fabulous offer of exposure?

I don’t think so, because it’s the principle of the thing. Huffington Post is valued at well over fifty million dollars, and the company can absolutely afford to pay contributors. The fact that it doesn’t, and can get away with it, is distressing to me.

The exchange I had with this editor wasn’t unpleasant, and I know that she’s doing what her bosses tell her to do. I don’t blame her for the company policy. If I’d brought this to Huffington Post and asked the site to publish it, it would be an entirely different situation, I think, (I already posted it on my Medium account, anyway), but this is one of those “the line must be drawn here” things for me. I don’t know if I made the right call, but I do feel good about standing on principle, and having an opportunity to rant a little bit about why I did.

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Comments (947)

  2. I was just having a similar discussion yesterday, with a little different tack: as long as there are so many contributors willing to be paid nothing for exposure, the current model will prevail. It’s against basic business sense to voluntarily incur an expense when you don’t need to. You’re asking Huffington and other content providers to be altruistic beyond reason or need.

    I don’t believe your issue is with the media outlets; it’s with your fellow contributors who devalue their own work and yours.

    1. It’s both. It’s for the people who have no clue that they should be paid for their work, and the companies that take advantage of it.

  3. This is pervasive across many industries. The value of content is through the floor, mostly because people don’t have the time or resources to stand up to people who would abuse them, we’re all busy making ends meet and trying to otherwise get ahead. I’m a photographer, and I deal with this stuff periodically, either people not wanting to pay me for my work, or using my work to profit. It’s doubly egregious when it’s done by companies in industries that rely on copyright. Case in point: http://billn.net/2015/08/11/no-really-copyright-is-important/

  6. Spot on, Wil. Why, you’re almost as smart as that Crusher kid! (And a better actor, too, judging from your Big Bang appearances!)

  8. Seems to unfortunately happen a lot to anything in the “creative” realm…. Happens to artists too, the offer of “exposure” in lieu of payment. With social media as it is today, getting “exposure” isn’t as difficult to get as it used to be

  9. I can see it from two perspectives. One would be the that Wil is 100% correct. If it’s worth publishing, it’s because they think they will make money from it. Why shouldn’t they compensate the creator of the content for bringing that traffic to their site to generate that revenue?

    On the other hand, does Wil Wheaton need that exposure? No. Would I benefit from that exposure if I were to start blogging today? Yes. It would be like an unpaid summer internship before graduating college. I get experience and pad my resume which helps me land a better job down the road. I may not be able to pay my rent with the exposure, but that exposure might elevate my blog to the point that it will pay my rent some day… or at least buy me a lunch here and there, which is a lot better than my (imaginary) blog not being read by anyone.

    1. Points to consider when determining if an internship qualifies to be unpaid.

      The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment.

      They are not being trained.

      The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern.

      Huffington Post argues that it offers “exposure”.

      The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff.

      One needn’t hire writers if they give up the goods for free, particularly if they are skilled.

      The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.

      Bam! Done. This where the judge awards payment to the intern. HP definitely gains immediate advantage in the from of content which it then uses to attract readers and expose them to advertisers who pay them.

      The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship.

      Want a job at the end of your internship? Don’t give the fruits of your labor away for free.

      The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

      If they want you to make coffee, copies, deliver mail, i.e. do things that do not involve actually doing things that are related to what you are being trained in (again, that idea of being trained…) then they don’t have to pay you. Writing content is directly related to HP’s core business. No content, no advertisers or subscriber’s, no Huffington Post.

    2. Unpaid summer internships are not okay either. If people are profiting from your labor, you deserve to share in the profits. Period.

    3. The problem with this thought process is that ‘might’ and ‘someday’ don’t fill your belly today. They don’t help to pay the utilities notice that came in the daily mail this morning. ‘Might’ and ‘someday’ do nothing for ‘right now’, and as alot of people will tell you, ‘right now’ is all we really have.

      If you’re persistent, and you make a concerted effort to advertise your work, social media and the millions of people staring at it will give you all the exposure you need. With skill, hard work, and a little luck, becoming famous is made easy. Especially in this day and age.

      That said, you are the only one who can assign value to your time and your effort. If you give it away for ‘might’ and ‘someday’, you will starve today, while everyone else gets what you produce for free.

    4. Unpaid summer internship? Each of my college jobs paid a fair wage for my experience. If anything, the employer was providing me a “working scholarship”.

  13. I have the same problem as a musician. Venues are famous for offering “exposure” and “beer”. Ok the beer part isn’t all that bad, but still I’d take money.

  14. As a fine artist (not a well-known one) I am frequently asked if someone can “use one of my images” for their product packaging, homepage, hair salon, whatever. NO MORE!! I was previously a fashion designer in Los Angeles (not a well-known one), I learned the hard way that the bitterness and resentment at giving away my hard work, to someone who could easily afford it, was not worth the exposure. It is assumed that a designer should be thrilled to give free clothes to any celebrity or stylist who asks. Rarely did I have a celebrity client willing to pay for a dress worn to an event. Okay, ONCE! lol. Thank you Margaret Cho for respecting my creativity and time. I still give away a good-sized percentage of my artwork, but now it is donated to non-profit causes I believe in and not greedy people who don’t appreciate it’s value.

  15. Does Wil compensate himself for any of the tweets and blog posts he writes? Or is that just all about exposure, kinda like Huffington Post?

    1. I don’t think his point is that you shouldn’t put things in to the world unless you’re paid for every single one…His point is just that when another person/organization/company comes along and asks to use your work, they should damn well be willing to pay for it if they think it’s worth publishing. He’s condemning HuffPo’s catch-all policy of non-payment, not the decision of an individual creator to self-publish or otherwise engage in self-promotion for free.

  16. Have you seen the ironic postings on facebook for chefs? They go something like this: Why don’t you come over to my house on Friday and make dinner for my friends and I for free? If we like it, we might hire you in the future to cook for us again. It’s great marketing for you.” Nobody outside of freelance artists has to listen to that crap.
    I’m proud of your move, and wish we were all in a place where we could stop the degradation of the value of artistic work by agreeing to bullshit like this!

  17. Exposure is also a delusion. With so much content freshly turned over, your manuscript could easily be overlooked. Easily not seen by the masses. Still relegated to the back burner of social media. Does no one understand this?
    Imagine if you will a lake of milk, with one floating chocolate morsel. How ever large the lake, in time you would find that one piece of chocolate as it is stark against the white background. If there was so much chocolate in there you could barely see the milk… well one more piece of chocolate is not going to be worth anything.
    (to the person writing or the person publishing)
    So go get your own domain name, go get cheap hosting, write your own blog, and if that stuff is that good – people come to you. You will get approached by people that want to advertise on your site, then you make your money. Otherwise if the demand is high enough, put your material behind a login that requires a paid subscription.
    Your only other piece of value is capturing all the information about a person landing on your site, then selling that to marketers that are out there.
    Overall – If you are putting something on the internet. And you consider the internet a “Free” space. Don’t be expecting to get paid for anything except in opportunities that you yourself must determine what you can turn that into.

    1. Sounds like you’re in the wrong business. That’s LIFE man. Lives change every day by single encounters. Job wise. Relationship wise. Sports wise. All it takes is ONE… And when it’s ONE vs nothing, I’ll take my shot w one. Or I guess if someone offered you a handful of free lottery tickets, you’d turn them down too?

  18. This sort of thing has been prevalent in the publishing industry from year dot, for Christ’s sake. Like a brief bit of exposure is going to pay your fucking bills! Please! This shit only exists in publishing. How have they gotten away with it for long? Because writers allow them to publish their shit anyway. For free. So who’s to blame?

  20. Thanks for this, Wil. I was recently talking to potential client about producing some commercials for them. When it came time to discuss rates and fees, they wanted to know if I would reduce my rate. I have done this in the past for non profits, or PSA’s. This was not one of those clients. When I said no and told them what my rate was, they wanted to know if I would work on a flat day rate. This basically means that a ‘day’ was what ever they determined. So I could work a 18 hour day and get paid for 8 real hours. I then pointed out the EEOC and California state labor regulations. At this point, they became irate and suggested I was not a ‘team’ player. After 20 years, I think it’s time for all artists, writers and producers to organize.

    1. Haha… Spot-on, Mark.

      “You’re not a team player” is what people with control issues say when people don’t do what they want, such as… oh… work for free. They’re betting they can use social pressure against you because people crave acceptance. They create the awkward situation and then step back and wait for you to fall into it because people are conditioned to abhor social awkwardness.

      A good response is something like: “I would love to be a team player and you couldn’t ask for a better team player than me – but unless you pay me, I will only be a team volunteer and I know you expect more from your team members than you would expect from a volunteer. So step up and be the team leader I know you are, and make me a full and equally paid team member and then let’s knock this thing out of the park.

  21. Mods for video games. Please see recent Steam/SkyRim debacle for reference. I’ve been modding games for 20 years and wanted to be compensated. Can I? Can I fuck.

  24. I agree. I’ve gotten the small town version of this with “I’ll recommend you if you cut me a deal” etc, which may sound good but I can not pay my suppliers, utilities and rent with. Even worse, I find out I wasn’t even recommend to anyone… >_>

  26. Love this! My clients often want to work for exposure and tell them it won’t pay the rent. Now I can say “Wil Wheaton agrees” and send them here. Thank you for helping freelancers and entrepreneurs recognize their value.

  28. I’m just curious as to the image you used on your post “Seven Things I Did To Reboot My Life” since you mentioned photographers in the above post. Did you compensate the artist for its use? Where do you get your images from? Again, just curious…
    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nes+reset+button&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSiQEahgELEKjU2AQaAAwLELCMpwgaYQpfCAMSJ4cBgBLbBcEF3Qy8BfQMCt0F2gWCPb0z4jayPrkzgTSBPcgz6zaVNBowVubx_1zqzago1sC9t1SUGhcBgUeAnlXjfOZ6FzxWqKrduxNAUswANiNu5pysSAzHxIAIMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgRiwh26DA&sa=X&ved=0CBoQwg4oAGoVChMI6onxpYnmyAIVytkmCh3PhgQJ&biw=1417&bih=888

    1. That image was sourced using the search tool at Creative Commons. It was licensed by its creator with the attribution-non-commercial license, so it’s used under that license, with credit embedded in the description of the image. I don’t sell ads or make any money off my blog, so it isn’t commercial. The person who created that image chose that license specifically so someone like me could use it in that way. I wouldn’t have taken it if it didn’t have that license, and I actually passed up a lot of other Big Red Button images that I liked, because they were copyrighted.

  29. I’ve recently stopped working for Exposure. The only thing it exposes is that I’ll work for free. My writing is valuable because of the time, research, and years of expertise I’ve developed. I’m currently fighting an online magazine that charges for subscriptions to stop using my material for free beyond the stuff I authorized. I, however, have some paid writing jobs coming up! Fortunately, like Wil, I have a day job that lets me now make the stand that my work is valuable.

    Glad you’re part of the movement, Wil! I’ve been a fan for years.

  30. As a photographer, I get this all the time. “Hey, can you come work for free for us? It’ll be great exposure…”.

    Sure, my kids love exposure for dinner, and my car runs great on it, too!

    Creative output will rarely be valued the same way that other careers are valued, but it’s frustrating to be asked over and over to provide free labor.

  32. Yes yes yes Wil, and thank you for this. As an oil painter (realistic figurative) I deal with this all the time. It has been my policy for over a decade now to never give or donate my work. I used to donate my work to charities, only to watch it sell far below it’s value (which lowers my work’s value as a whole), and never once did I gain a thing by the “exposure”. (I give cash to charities I believe in, not my art). I am also asked by various businesses if they can “hang ” my work in their offices, etc. with no offer of compensation, not even for my time to deliver and hang it (but oh, the exposure! Ugh.) I receive far more valuable exposure marketing myself on facebook, twitter and instagram, exposure that leads to actual sales. I am also constantly asked to sell my work far below it’s value (usually more than 50% off), which I will not do. (I do occasionally offer small discounts to my collectors on older work, but never more than 25%, and this is MY choice, my offer.) I’ve spent over 25 years training and plying my skills, and that is worth something. It can be very tempting (I currently earn below the poverty mark) but considering the effects on a long-term career it is not worth it. My fiance’, an extremely talented guitar player with over 40 years experience is also constantly asked to play for free for the “exposure”, and he will not. It is up to ALL OF US in creative fields to stand up and STOP WORKING FOR FREE. This is the only way things will ever change and that people will value what we have to offer.

    -M Vlasic, vlasicstudio.com

  33. I can’t answer for you, but I can say that I agree with your decision and stand with you against the many multimillion dollar companies whose aim it is to marginalize those of us who make stuff (I’m a composer).

  35. Exposure, even whenever you control the means of such, still isn’t worth a dime in an environment where the average price for your content is zero.

    Case in point, I am a DJ, have been for 16 years. I started a weekly podcast 2 years ago and sent it out to a couple dozen people. I had no illusions about what I was doing, I was working for free, building a brand and business and one day I would be able to capitalize on that investment of time into a budding career.

    My results have been both spectacular and educational. 2 years later the show is just now on the cusp of real international notoriety, though namely within the underground house/techno realm. It has grown from that couple dozen listeners to over 100,000 per week via internet radio and 6 terrestrial, non-commercial radio stations with a broadcast footprint nearing 6 million people! The show now has world-touring guests offering a guestmix in the 2nd hour. They also are sending me that content for free. I would gladly pay them for this aside from this very important fact: the show still makes absolutely no money. It actually has cost me on average about $2,000 per year to do it! Maybe that success is right around the corner, maybe it’s not. I no longer do live gigs for free aside from the rare occasional small venue in my native St. Louis, but gigs haven’t been forthcoming from it either.

    I’m not complaining, this is the choice I made and I actually really love doing the show. I resent that people have attempted to use my love for my work as an excuse not to pay me (club owners do this all the time). My post is to illustrate that even when you think you’re reaching a lot of people through “exposure” what you thought was enough exposure, isn’t nearly enough.

    Great article and perspective Wil!

    1. Also, not to be overly winded but this environment is relatively new. DJing used to pay rather well. The change happened around 2008 during the economic downturn and hasn’t reversed since.

      1. DJing can still pay well…as can writing, or anything else. Will is spot on in this article.

        It’s all about refusing to work for less than the going rate of what your time/talent is worth. I know dj’s that make $500/hour. I also know people who’ve been devastated by a $50/hr dj who ruined their party with lack of actual skill.

  36. I agree completely. I used to be an agent for TV presenters in the UK. TV shows would want to have my clients talk on their shows. On one occasion they wanted someone who had over 30 years in their field and was a leading national commentator sit on the panel of a live news show for four hours. Obviously they needed experts for background and to help fill if outside broadcast lines went down.

    It is offensive that organisations in this day an age want to draw on your talent and sell it on exposure when you are bigger than they are!

  37. You have to admire that Huffington Post’s rep for being able to vocalize, “unable to financially compensate our bloggers at this time” without choking. My theory is that HP has an algorithm with “X” being the variable of how many bloggers who decline this offer equating to the result of suddenly compensation being available. So all you bloggers out there keep saying NO and let’s find out the value of “X” 😉

  38. Bar owners get away with this too. Bands hungry for exposure are actually made to pay the bar owner for the privilege of keeping his customers entertained and buying more drinks.

  39. I have a small-potatoes career in classical and theatre music. I routinely get asked to sing for free at events, either for the “love of music” or “to support a good cause.” Hey, one of the “good causes” I support is my landlord’s need for the rent money.

  40. In my opinion, you did the right thing. It is about what your value is, being able to say no and walk away with knowing you are being authentic to yourself. As they approached you and asked to share your work, then they should have offered a payment for that. Fair play for saying no. If we as bloggers, writers, say no, eventually the likes of the Huff Post will have to modify their behaviour,

  41. As a visual artist who still works in physical media I’ve been running into interesting conversations with Digital Galleries who either ask for payment to post my art with the offer of “Exposure” or who simply want to post it with nothing linking back to me beyond my name. Not even my website. It’s ridiculous. Especially considering I already have an established site. This is my work, to post it with just my name is a mockery of what other do.

  42. Interesting that as Huffpo is a for profit entity, and would make money from the hits on your article that they would offer nothing. Well, not interesting as typical of the business freeloader class. So thank you for sticking to your guns. The creative arts are full of similar sharks who think nothing of using other people’s work for little or no money. Never mind that one’s years of experience, training etc, do count towards a market price for one’s work. Craigslist is the running joke for such work for free scams. You probably have been told this but there is a great rant by the late Science Fiction author, Harlan Ellison about the very same subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE Thanks again.

  43. most of us have no hopes and no dreams. i’ll take $0 to have something published on HP. it is the farthest i will ever go, the peak of all of my achievements. though, i have already accepted that it won’t ever happen.

  45. One of the few “proven” ways to gain readers as an indie writer is to give away one of your titles for free. Given that I’ve sold hundreds, and some contemporaries have garnered tens of thousands of freebie downloads that have led to thousands of sales… Offer me a better solution, and I’m all ears.

  46. I get requests like this all. the. time. and they won’t stop until other writers/bloggers/creatives stop giving away their content for free. Thank you for standing up, not only for yourself, but for all of us.

  47. Would you ask a heart surgeon to operate on you “for the exposure”? How about asking stock broker to make some trades without a commission, “for the exposure”? Ridiculous.

    My other favorite cheat is when they ask you to accepting 25% less money for your work, because we’re negotiating, and you want the job, right? Again: would you, as the potential client, take 25% less for whatever you do “because you want the job”? It’s amazing how quickly negotiations end at that point (resulting equally in both contracts and someone walking away).

  48. It’s not just bloggers and writers and other creatives. I am a professional librarian. Our conferences expect us to present for free, PLUS pay to attend the conference for the privilege of presenting. And not just association conferences, but commercial conferences that turn a profit. I am well known in my field and receive frequent requests to “pick my brain”. Usually I will do so gladly with other librarians in similar circumstances. But when a publisher or distributor asks for the benefit of my deep knowledge in my specific area, I always specify the need for a remunerative arrangement. (I am grateful to those that value my knoledge and compensate me). far too often the expressionof an expectation of payment results in an end to the conversation. I learned from a mentor at a very early ago that no one appreciates or respects what they get for free.

  49. This is the flip side of this article that I saw on OpenSource.com recently. Here’s the link:

    http://opensource.com/life/15/10/open-source-design-ugly-heres-why?sc_cid=70160000000x3wTAAQ

    One of the quotes from that article reads “Why aren’t there more designers contributing their mad skills to open source projects on their own time?” Here’s the thing. By its very nature open source means that you are releasing your work to the general public for free. When I Googled whether you can make money by creating open source software, this link basically says that you won’t directly be compensated for your work or even make a regular wage but your work will gains visibility.

    http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/100685/making-money-with-open-source-as-a-developer

    The bottom line: As long as designers won’t be financially compensated for making open source software visually appealing, open source software design will continue to be ugly. It’s like the old saying “You get what you pay for.”

    1. People in opensource communities can easily make a living from the after sales like paid support, advanced features and so on, infact on Linux systems, theirs a rise in the number of paid softwares on the open markets, something that Microsoft are slowly realizing that releasing operating systems for free and selling software like Office and other cloud products is the way forward.

      When will this happen, only Microsoft knows.

      Opensource software doesn’t have to be ugly, I could google plenty of ugly softwares that are paid for, yes I have paid for some and complained to be fobbed off with the usual get out of refunding or compensation for poorly developed software that definitely wasn’t fit for the claimed purposes.

      So you do get what you pay for but it also pays to try opensource, 99% of the time it gets the job done, like my SSD recovery, if it wasn’t for Linux and being able to take an image of my drive, I couldn’t have successfully recovered files. I paid for my operating system from Windows!!! So yeah, I got what I paid for, a very shaky operating system.

  50. I disagree with some of the claim that this works with programming. If it wasn’t for the goodwill of many people in the programming community then we wouldn’t have forum and blogging software or tools, the amount of tech we would have would be limited because allot of tech we pay for carries open source software.

    If the whole world ran on pure capitalist values, we wouldn’t have personal anything, I mean iPods, Walkmans, mobile phones, not even telephones and that’s because they would be so expensive, you would need to be wealthy to afford one of whatever took your fancy.

    Operating systems are built on people giving their works freely, take Linux, not a popular operating system by any means BUT fact is the internet survives by supporting web servers, firewalls, routing and email servers, databases that all use open source software.

    Paid software generally start out as free software… and being free does not exclude you from making a living by paid support which is how some Linux operating systems make their money, others through advertising (android) and if you think that iPhones are 100% made by and software written by apple, think again, you have a hell of allot of open source software and hardware, that’s right folks, you who own an iPhone have paid best part of £600 for $20 of parts and open source software, the authors get nowt, it all goes to apple.

    It is certainly something to consider the next time you switch your TV on, especially smart TV’s who rely on open source software! or make a phone call, use the internet…

    1. As a programmer who has a whole list of friends, family and others asking if I can “do their website” for them, without offering a dime in return, I can say without hesitation that this absolutely applies to programming as well. Keep in mind that Wil is not saying that you should never offer any of your work for free. Hell, the article HuffPo was soliciting for was published by Wil on his on blog…for free! If you’ve got altruistic or noble intentions for putting your work out there, and you do so at no charge..that’s your choice, as it’s your work and you can do whatever you damn well please with it.

      Again, the point here is that a for profit entity makes a policy of not paying contributors which they are soliciting themselves. The point is that if someone asks you to do work, (whether writing, snapping a picture, painting or drawing something, or yes, writing a piece of software), then you have the right to expect to be paid for it, and not be handed some line about “exposure” in the place of real dollars.

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