Every day, I do my best to be the person I need in the world, the person who was never there for me when I was a kid. I do my best to be kind, patient, and gentle. I do my best to look for joy and glimmers, to create joy and glimmers for others. When I am working hard to be that person for myself, I am occasionally that person for someone in the world who I may never meet in person. And when I hear from those people, who bravely trust me with their stories, it inspires me to keep going. Because on those days when it’s REALLY hard, when I know I’m fucking up and not being the person I want to be, I can forgive myself and remember that everyone fucks up from time to time, but not everyone makes the effort to learn and grow. Time I spend beating myself up for fucking up is time I am not spending being the person I need, so I lose twice (like the Dodgers, yesterday!).
I sat down with Mayim Bialik to talk about surviving childhood abuse and exploitation, reparenting myself, and how I’ve grown and healed since we last spoke on her podcast, about three years ago.
You also get to see me get triggered in real time, realize it, recover from it, and address what happened. It’s a little embarrassing to see myself fuck up like that, in public no less, and be reactive when I want to be responsive, but I feel like it could be a valuable teaching moment and that’s worth a little embarrassment, if it’s helpful to literally anyone else in the world.
I hope you’ll make some time to watch or listen to this, with the warning that I speak about being abused by my father, exploited by both of my parents, abandoned by all but one of my relatives (and even that’s barely there, only when I reach out), and how I’ve worked so hard to overcome all of it.
I also talk a little bit about It’s Storytime, which I’d love for you to subscribe to if you haven’t already. New episodes drop every Wednesday!
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Man. I’m reading this, and I’m taken by how, even though our lives have been very different in detail we’ve ended up in similar places in who we’re trying to be. I’m trying to be the patient, kind, and gentle friend and peer I needed when I was a kid. it’s good to see someone as prominent as you showing, by deeds, how to be better than those that formed you.
Im watching your podcast with myiam as this email pops up in my inbox. Everytime I heard you speak of your journey and your truth, it is such a blessing. Thank you for being you and such an open spirit who is a glimmer to thousands of others. You are AMAZING!!
Someone once wrote that on a piece of paper and gave it to me. They didn’t know Me, but overheard a conversation I had and reacted it how it made them feel. I have that paper pinned to my wall. Never underestimate your impact on the world, just by being you. You are one of the good ones. Much Love and respect.
I’ll listen tonight. I listen to Mayim’s podcast, and I can’t believe I missed your program. Your insight to life keeps me going. With a daughter I finally divorced for being so hateful, a granddaughter I will never see again and health issues, your words are a breath of fresh air. I changed the trust to exclude my daughter and I’m leaving everything to my granddaughter, which made me feel better for awhile. I don’t miss my daughter; I miss my granddaughter. Thanks for your words.
Trauma is a real bitch if you let it beat you.
I sort of take a similar approach to you. It even filters through to my work as a Peer Support Worker for Autistic Adults. Which is a job role I never thought I’d have been doing about 30 years back when I was rushing home from College to watch TNG.
Bialik’s podcast is always very good. A recent episode on the bird flu was immensely informative.
Stop saying you fuck up. There’s no such thing as failure. Only feedback. Learn to adjust into this headspace and it will help bring a new perspective.
Regardless of your past, focus on the future. You know this (and I know it’s hard when the memory demons come calling). The new podcast is delightfully entertaining. Keep up the good work.
I’m reading this around midnight on a therapist day, where I feel stuck and maybe need to check the list of therapists my insurance will pay for. But reading this I know I am still in survival mode. 66 years of survival mode. I don’t know anything else. It’s freaking exhausting and isolating and a repeat played on an endless loop. I’m going to listen to Mayim’s conversation with you right now, and catch up on your podcast tomorrow. Thank you for this.
Two things… first, the story at the end of you petting and saying sorry to the robot and the notion that was brought up of saying please and thank you to LLMs and the like, every time I hear a story like that I can’t help but think back to that scene from the Next Gen episode “Q Who” where Sonya Gomez is saying please and thank you to the food replicator and explaining to Geordi why she does it.
Second thing, from much earlier in the conversation… when you described the experience of physically expelling something from your mouth in response to communicating with your younger self, the thought occurred to me that it was that child finally exhaling a long-held sigh of relief. I have no idea how helpful it would be to frame it that way, but that was just the impression or feeling I got from it.
Two things… first, the story at the end of you petting and saying sorry to the robot and the notion that was brought up of saying please and thank you to LLMs and the like, every time I hear a story like that I can’t help but think back to that scene from the Next Gen episode “Q Who” where Sonya Gomez is saying please and thank you to the food replicator and explaining to Geordi why she does it.
Second thing, from much earlier in the conversation… when you described the experience of physically expelling something from your mouth in response to communicating with your younger self, the thought occurred to me that it was that child finally exhaling a long-held sigh of relief. I have no idea how helpful it would be to frame it that way, but that was just the impression or feeling I got from it.
Crap, this got double-posted… sorry.
GOD, my heart goes out to you, Wil, and my gratitude. Thank you for speaking the awful truth AND for doing the work to heal. I relate to what you said about everyone fucks up but not everyone is willing to do the work to grow and heal; and that’s what my therapist means when she says we live in their world. There are more of the unhealed than there are the healed. We have to find our way through the legions of the wounded. I can’t wait to listen to your interview on MBB.
Thank you for all of this, Wil. And yes, your openness about your own struggles has helped me to feel less alone in mine.
“… when I know I’m fucking up and not being the person I want to be, I can forgive myself and remember that everyone fucks up from time to time, but not everyone makes the effort to learn and grow.”
YES YES YES YES YES! This x100000000000000000000 times over and over again!
Wil, that was lovely. It took me a day to watch the entire podcast, and finally had the time when I was sitting down and hand-hemming my son’s trousers. You are such a beautiful person who is so compassionate towards other people (and apparently, robots as well!). The world is so much better with you in it. Thanks so much for your kindness and real thoughtfulness. You are a wonderful role model. I’m so glad that as an adult I am getting to know who you are and not just the character you played on TNG. I’m approaching 50 myself and, good gracious, I don’t know how the time has passed. I still feel like the awkward nerdy high school student – I just have grey hair, cool kids, and a wonderful husband. I’m so blessed and I am also so glad to know that there are other wonderful people in this crazy messed up world.
This was very excellent and would not have been something that I would have found in my own so thank you for always introducing new things to people. Learning is fun and new things make the world a little brighter in these dark times.
Segue- for your new Podcast It’s Storytime: I subscribe to patreon but also don’t want you to lose clicks or whatever metric you use to determine how loved and amazing the podcast is. I had been using pocket casts but don’t want the commercials should I still click into pocket casts each week or will just going to patreon still give you the relevant data you need to keep making the podcast?
You’re so thoughtful to ask, but I don’t think it makes a difference. The thing potential advertisers care about is total downloads across all platforms.
It means the world to me that you and so many others have supported me on Patreon. I’m still early in that process, and still getting my bearings. I’m excited to share extras there, and so grateful for everyone’s support.
Hey Wil, I’m the guy who asked about your EMDR treatments during your ama last week. Great to see you post about it again so soon! I’m curious about the buzzers you’re using during your EMDR times that you mentioned you use – can you point me to them online please? I’m just starting my journey with EMDR and think it might work better for my psyche to have something along those lines rather than the repetitive beating method. Thank you so much. All the best.
Sure. This is the one that I use: https://neurotekcorp.com/classic-tac-kit/
Thank you, sir. Your input has been invaluable on this. All the best.
Wil, I am continually grateful for you using your voice to share your story with the world. I had always known that something was off about my childhood and struggled with my relationship with my mother as I grew into adulthood until 14 years ago when I became a mom and I starting imaging treating my child the way I had been treated. But my experiences weren’t violent or loud or aggressive so at the time I was gaslighting myself – it couldn’t have been as bad as I was making it out to be. This was long before we as a society knew about covert narcissism and all the mental health effects. But then you shared your story, your truth and there was finally someone else in the world who made me feel less nuts about how I was feeling. I will always be grateful to you for being the voice that I needed at the start of my journey of healing. I hope one day I can meet and thank you in person.
I have only gotten half way through because I’m at work and my wireless headphones died. First world problems…
One thing that happened to strike me was the title of the book you mention, The Body Keeps the Score. It reminded me of a lyric from the song Home (Leave the Lights On) by the Milwaukee-based band Field Report. The lyrics are:
And the body remembers what the mind forgets
Archives every heartbreak and cigarette
And these reset bones, they might not hold
Yeah but they might yet
The whole song is, at least to me, about how we go through temporary experiences, and while the events are temporary, they affect us in ways that we live with forever. The song is hopeful, as the title implies, as we continue our journey to a reach home – a place we are secure, comfortable, safe, and want to be. And the light is on in expectation of our arrival.
I just thought the parallel was interesting. I could be way off – I don’t know you or the songwriter personally – but I thought it was fascinating to hear two narratives in different forms that connected, at least for me.
I can SO identify with the Complex PTSD from surviving the abuse of a TOXIC Flesh Oven!!!!
Thank you for opening up about your trauma. I can’t imagine what you went through and I’m sorry that you suffered so much. My Dad was an interesting individual. After he got electrocuted on the job( he was an electrical engineer), his personality changed and he became overprotective. It got worse after I was diagnosed with Marfan Syndrome. Anyway he wouldn’t let me leave the house to get a job or anything and the only reason that I have a job, husband and daughter now is because he died. I didn’t realize that I was in survival mode until reading about your experiences and my husband getting me to talk about it. Thank you again!
Wow, the way this all resonated with me. Something that was extremely comforting to me as someone who grew up in an extremely abusive home, was that I’ve been working on a lot of the things you mentioned in therapy for a few years now, and that made me feel much less alone because seeing/hearing where you’re at now gives me hope that one day, I’ll be where you are too. I’ve got lots of work left to do, but my god do I feel seen right now. Thank you, a million times over.
Wil – been following you for many years (aside from being an avid TNG fan) – since the days you were struggling to keep you web server running (I think) in your house.
I discovered Scalzi’s books when I was looking for audio books ‘written’ by you, and mistakenly picked up ‘Starter Villain’. Your voice is perfect (AFAIC) for Scalzi. I love your style, and am really enjoying “It’s Storytime”. You’re doing great – keep at it.
BTW, I actually did my Master’s Thesis on quantum wave dynamics, the collapse of the wavefunction, the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, how it all relates to consciousness and the role of alpha and beta dimers in the microtubules of neurons.
Roger Penrose meets Carl Jung meets Wolfgang Pauli meets Dave Chalmers.
Bazinga!!
Wil, the only thing that upsets me about this is when you refer to your getting triggered as a “fuck up”. Why on EARTH would you call it that? You’ve worked SO hard to heal and to deal with the aftermath of your years of parental abuse — getting triggered by discussing it is NOT, in any way, a fuckup.
You said it yourself, man: “Time I spend beating myself up for fucking up is time I am not spending being the person I need”.
Don’t beat yourself up for things that aren’t EVEN fuckups.
I just listened to about half of your interview on MBB and it was both wonderful and heartbreaking. It was also helpful in that I am a behavioral health professional, trying to get offender to peer into their pasts in an effort to keep them from offending again. The piece where you suggested speaking to yourself as you would to your child is something I had heard before but seemed to resonate more when you described it. Thank you and I look forward to hearing more from you.
Hello, Wil. I have watched only the first third of your video with Mayam Bialik and the first thing that hit me was when you started talking about how things fiction writers write about suddenly becomes true science. This reminded me of the recent videos I have been watching of Dr Tyson, Professor Cox, and other scientists where they are saying there is a possibility that the multiverse may actually be real. They also talk about warp drive being somehow possible.
Also I am thinking I should really finish the story I have been working on for the last few years. (I am having problems with the logistics of the ending.) Possibly I might submit it to you and see what happens. It’s based on the old text adventure Adventure a k a Colossal Cave. The difference being that in order to avoid having a caver talking to himself I decided to make it a family outing mostly from the point of view of the six year old girl. Otherwise I want to be as faithful to the game as possible, but I may fudge a little because I don’t want to give away the solution to all of the puzzles directly. Anyway its just a thought. Since retirement I can finally finish so many ideas I have been working on, but I wind up being pulled in so many different directions now, it makes it difficult to finish anything.
I really appreciate your openness about your traumatic childhood as I had an abusive father as well.
Hope your podcast is successful.
Rod
Wil, for too long, I felt like I was the only one who grew up feeling this way. I always had friends complain about their parents and then I would ask: do you have supper every night with both parents? do your parents tell you they love you? They understood my point. Mine didn’t, I could feel the resentment towards me as a kid. We are the sum of our past but it doesn’t define who we have become today. Having grown with trauma, I have been able to cold read people, so I either would have been a good actor or mentalist in another life. Thank you for how you open to the world.
I finally got to watch last night & will be watching again!! When I saw your first episode drop with Mayim, I was in the middle of EMDR, myself. I was so shocked at how our stories aligned (except for the Hollywood-actor thing), and kept pausing to take notes. I excitedly shared the notes with my “regular” therapist that week. You helped me feel “seen” and I’ll forever be grateful.
I was also SA’d as a child, repeatedly, by a distant family member. Despite reporting it to my teacher, school counselor, parents, etc., it continued. So when I heard that part of your story last night, I felt your pain. I hope you are able to feel healing & closure. EMDR is amazing. At 40 years old, it gave me a life I’d never had before. It even healed me from physical complications from my autoimmune diseases.
When I watched your first episode a few years ago, that’s also when I REALLY began following your online presence, your Discord, reading (Still) Just a Geek when it came out, etc. I’m so thankful Mayim has that podcast & that you guys work together that way. Thank you.
-April SB
I listened to your fascinating interview with Mayim Bialik and immediately bought your audiobook. I am of your age and always wondered where your career led. I last saw you on Star Trek Next Generation before I had five kids and fell into a “mothering” coma. Anyhoo, wonderful interview. Also, considering the serious assault charges brought against Neil Gaimon and knowing some of the content of your book, I was alarmed when he (Neil) read an introduction. I wonder if you might consider adding yet another annotation…
This was a great interview. Thanks for being so authentic and open about your experience. I immediately bought your book after the episode ended and I’m currently listening to it.
I had a similar childhood as Wil. Not quite to the extent in terms of fame etc, but my parents (who sound very similar to yours) did still farm me out like a cow so they could get money off me from my modelling– which I hated.
I admire you so much, Wil. So much. For facing it all, for learning how to be there for yourself and others. I think you are just absolutely incredible for how you’ve dealt with everything, how he’s not only survived but thrived.
I only wish I could be as strong as you. Thank you for your thoughts, as always.