228 thoughts on “McCarthy would be so proud”

1. Shrill political rhetoric is not what I come to this site for.

2. Although I agree you have the right to say and feel anything you want, Wil, I disagree with you turning your web site into a political discussion board.
   Again, it’s your site and you certianly have the right to do whatever you want with it. But in MY humble opinion, for those of us to whom your beliefs leave a bad taste in their mouths, it may cause us to follow that student at Ohios graduations lead and turn their backs on you.

3. this sounds suspiciously like what happened back at kutztown university in january 1995. i was a sophomore and we found out one day that bill clinton would be speaking in our field house. the administration bulletin about the event mentioned something to the effect of “protestors will be dealt with accordingly”. i don’t remember the exact wording but i remember being outraged. students were told that they were being given priority to see him speak. so my roommmate and i got in line at 5:30am two days before the speech to get tickets. had to skip my first class because we didn’t actually receive our tickets until 9:30. so at 6:00 am on the morning of the 10:30 speech, we got in line. at 9:30, when the doors opened, students were held at bay while we watched busload after busload of special interest groups being led in first. when they were all inside and seated, approximately 100 students were let inside. needless to say, students were outraged after standing outside in the freezing cold in january in pennsylvania only to be cast aside in favor of less volatile voters. so if you think for a second that this is soley a republican tactic, you’re wrong.

4. Wil…
   I will give you there are some bad things going on. But why would you bring your CHILD to someplace where you are going to PROTEST. The only reason to bring your CHILD to a PLACE like that is because you need to use her as a DEFENSE. How weak is that person. What a LOSER if you ask me.
   It would havent have mattered if it was GW or BC as president. They would have recieved the SAME warning.
   I dont think you have been anti american, you are just speaking your mind. But, look at ALL THE FACTS before jumping on this guys bandwagon.

5. Thanks, Wil. It’s pretty ironic that you’d be the one to stumble across this stuff, busy as you are! But I’m glad you do, because who else is gonna tell me? The TV news? Funny, everybody seems to cheer for Bush on the TV. Funny how that works.
   I’ve forwarded some of this information to my Mom- she’s not very political and holds to a 1950s sort of political closedmindedness, BUT… she went to University of Michigan. Which happens to be the BIG RIVAL of Ohio State. They have a slogan, ‘OhHowIHateOhioState’.
   That’s one way to get people to pay attention 😉 ‘hey, look what your big rival school did!’ That’s one way to break through a refusal to see reality. And in being mad at Ohio State, a little door might open so the next time she sees something like ‘Bush stormtroopers demand standing ovation at gunpoint, criminal not-applauders arrested and held in dark dungeons somewhere’, only for real, she’ll not instinctively see ‘stormtroopers and dark dungeons’ and might actually see what’s REALLY happening. Which is not, currently, as bad as shipping people off in boxcars to be gassed- but that sort of thing took time to develop, didn’t it? And I do know that my Mom is very well educated on WWII history.
   Again, thanks Wil. Keep it up.

6. …and hang on a second. If Clinton does this too, that means that no matter which mainstream political party you side with, they are doing this stuff.
   Isn’t that a PROBLEM?

7. Part of the reason the warning to comply or be arrested strikes concern is historical context. Did colleges make similar statements when Clinton was pres? I don’t know. Probably. Maybe. Was it wrong? Yep. Would I have been pissed off about that. You bet. Did I hear about it? No.
   But we currently have a political environment that makes such action by the administration of the college an outrage. We have an administration that has joked about how it was too bad this isn’t a dictatorship. The have also warned (not a joke) that Americans should watch what they say and that people who disagree with the Whitehouse and raise questions about free speech and due process give ammunition to terrorists. It’s a group of people who have been shrouding the everday workings of the government in secrecy and hiding parts of it in secret bunkers in the form of what THEY call a Shadow Government–a Shadow Government that does NOT include legislative or judicial branches.
   It’s no wonder some of us are getting a bit nervous, if not outraged.

8. Wow.
   There’s an awful lot up there to follow! I saw this link the other day on Fark. I think that the President of OSU must be an idiot for making remarks like that. Graduation is for the graduates, regardless of whether we believe in their personal politics or not. Threatening them with arrest, expulsion and the loss of their diploma was probably the best lesson in life that they ever received at that school. Those in power dictate what goes, and freedom of speech belongs only to those we say it does. If the grads decide this needs to change, well see. I wonder if any Alumni organizations have questioned the judgement of making a statement like this as well.
   I think it is despicable that some people are pushing hatred in the name of NY. I’m from NY, and I had people there at the WTC when it went down, so don’t push your bs on me. What happened that day was terrible and despicable, but the terrorists aren’t the only ones responsible. The FBI and CIA seem more interestesd in finding ways to blow their own horn rather than cooperate with each other and actually protect the people of this country. In my opinion this makes them guilty of treason and makes them an accomplice to all the murders that day. If they did their jobs properly then 9-11 may not have happened, or at least on that scale. Besides we wouldn’t have to defend against them if we weren’t meddling there for as long as we have. If people want help, let them ask for it. We really need to reevaluate our allegiances over there. Israel is just as brutal as the Palestinians. There are no “good guys” there, just a lot of people convinced they are right no matter what.
   Funny how the “dirty bomber” popped up right as Congressional hearings concerning the lack of disclosure of important materials and documents by the FBI and CIA and Justice Department are going on isn’t it?
   Just something to think about.

9. I am also a Canuck, But I can and do agree with the problem with Bush. I can’t believe that America has a leader who is worse in more ways than the Canadian Prime Minister. Don’t let the guy trample on freedom of speech America, if that goes, what’s next?

10. It seems you are all instantly jumping to the conclusion that these students were told this as a new policy. If this was a new university policy and affected every speech given there, I would be concerned. But have you considered the other possibilities of why someone told the students this? If I was part of the faculty at the school, I would be terribly embarrassed if my students turned their back on Bush. Now I would not tell them they could not do it or threaten to arrest them. However, people easily get swept away with emotion and anger when a huge event for them will be interrupted. It would be very easy to understand someone exaggerating the threat of what would happen if they were embarrassed.
    People often make grandiose statements or threats when they are angry or threatened themselves. You must take this into consideration when considering this story. This could also be a precaution. It would be very easy to hide something underneath a graduate robe and even easier to conceal what you are doing when not facing someone. I think the former is ahelluva more likely than the latter though.
    Please think about the situation and the human factor when statements like this are made. Look at the timing, intent, and strength of the statement. Are they making this a new rule at every graduation or is this just for this once? Of course everyone has their rights. Hell, you have the right to bear arms and shout threats at the president too. That doesn’t mean you can show the president your new loaded shotgun as you tell him how much you hate him.
    Cmon. This should only be an issue IF students were actually arrested or expelled. Bitching about rights being taken away should be saved when and if a pattern develops. There is a huge cry of wolf coming from the leftists in this country and god save us all if a wolf ever does show up since no one would be listening by then.

11. And to think my Step daughter actually considered attending that school! I am ashamed of my birth state today. Thank you Wil for posting this on your site. This is an outrage.

12. Process for posting on WWDN:
    1. Read liberal post on front page
    2. Read first 10 responses or until you come upon one by Wil himself.
    3. Read slogan by Wil “You are either with us or against us”, etc.
    4. Post first line thanking wil for being so “brave” and posting something so “subversive” on his website.
    5. Hope wil reads your post and becomes your friend.
    6. Read the liberal posts (Read: 95% of posts), agreeing with them all.
    7. Find first post with a different viewpoint.
    8. Get worked up. Assume this person is an ignorant and brainwashed American. Never hurts to assume they are racist too.
    9. Post a reply using one of the following: A viewpoint that has already been said 10000 times, an out of context phrase from John Ashcroft or Bush, a comparision of bush to hitler, or the Benjamin Franklin quote about not sacrificing freedom for safety.
    10. Feel really damn good to have so many people agree with you.
    Repeat steps 7 through 10 until you realize you have wasted, er spent 4 hours on WWDN. Rock On!

13. Dale, you said:
    “Cmon. This should only be an issue IF students were actually arrested or expelled. Bitching about rights being taken away should be saved when and if a pattern develops.”
    I disagree. It actually doesn’t matter if anyone was arrested or expelled. The purpose of the statement was to put fear into people who would otherwise feel free to express themselves (even if they do make asses of themselves in the process). Quashing dissent really only takes a credible threat. And given the environment of having the President and Secret Service, police, etc. it’s not that unreasonable to believe that they did intend to carry out the threat.
    And since I referred to the John Ashcroft quote, I ask you under what context that comment was ever acceptable?
    I’ve seen LET’S ROLL!

14. I think the reason we never heard about this kinda thing when Clinton was president was because he had more important controversies to worry about. Talk about having your hand in the cookie jar, no wonder he blimped out for awhile.
    I also see that none of the more liberal posts are mentioning that this school has the right to control conduct at a speech conducted on it’s campus. If Bush goes down to Main Street and starts giving an impromptu speech, by all means be rude and vulgar. While at a private or state-run school, for which all taxpayers contribute, you better watch your manners. I say if anyone got kicked out, arrested, or expelled, they deserved it. It was not the proper place to protest.

15. Well some are crying wolf. But as I said I know whats going on and am informed, I know the FBI now has the authority to read my emails listen to my phone calls without a warrant. I know that a Arabic friend of mind was incarcerated by the FBI and held for over 25 days before he was told why. My friend had just become an American citizen. It was later found he was held because he was ticketed two years ago for engaging in protest at my state capitol during a quiet gay rally. Their explanations for his being detained were vague and they were without a warrant but still he was taken to a jail. When word broke in the local media the owner of the news paper denied the story in press. THere was a small protest later but the protesters were gentley hushed out by police. This happened in CHampaign Illinois. Im not complaining for the fair treatment of terrorists im complaining for the fair treatment of American citizens. This isnt crying wolf this the truth this stuff is happening.
    America is not as perfect as we like to think. As a gay activist I know full well im denied many rights as an American citizen. Legally in many parts of the US i can be denied credit, housing (which has happened to me), loans (also occured), bank accounts, health care (happened), insurance (happened), i can even be arrested in my own home for living with living with another of the same sex. Hell this goes on among many minority groups. So we arent crying wolf this stuff is happening, granted not like other countries, but still many contitutional rights are trampled on day by day. And now with an excuse of terrorist threats it will get worse. Catch the terorist not the innocent thats why we created so many checks and balances lets not ignore those balances for the sake of paranoia.
    Also to put things in perspective yes Wtc was a horiffic terrorist attack on the US and we have had a few more but lets face it we are lucky it is not really bad we just got it all at once, other nations like Ireland have had this thing decades longer and have lost more. 3,000 may have died here but millions more have died in other countries by terrorism. I think many Americans are overreacting and panicing on terrorism a little to much.
    I thank Wil Wheaton for being so brave in his effort to open minds and make people just a bit aware of their world.

16. I neglected to mention my friend was detained and asked if he knew any one who hated America, he was also asked and was investigated by the FBi if he had any links to Al-quieda. Their report ended with “unconfirmed”. And although free from jail my friend is still under watch.

17. Dale, your last post was about the only one to make me laugh on this subject. I’m glad someone has the neurons engaged. However, almost everyone else is merely interested in hashing the same old tired inflammatory rhetoric and facts be damned.
    Here, I’ll take it up a notch. I heard Bush had 5 students jailed, beaten, and tortured! Who needs a source. I HEARD it or READ it. Let’s say it was a local source. Yeah, that’s the ticket…
    The next time I ask “how could someone be so stupid?” someone direct me back to this topic please…

18. I’m a UK resident. It’s so refreshing to hear something so…well, refreshing from a friend across the pond. All we get here is the constant tirade of imperialist nonsense about defending America’s rights, when, as Wil rightly points out, those rights will soon be unidentifiable.
    Even here our own beloved Tony Blair, ever determined to make us the 51st state, criticises those of us within his Labour Party who dare to speak out against the war and against George W Bush.
    As you probably know, he’s a huge national joke here. We have a cartoon satire TV show in which a Bush military aide has to use a glove puppet called Professor Liebstraum in order to explain the basic facts about the Arab-Israeli conflict to the cloth-eared git. Bush will only understand the puppet, which is ironic, as Blair the puppet will only ever listen to Bush.
    Good luck, ye Americans who dare to speak out.

19. Yeah, controversies like the White House being to politicized, using White House equipment for a reelection campaign, and getting umm… oral satisfaction from interns and nasty habits with cigars. Instead we have a politicized White House (why is anyone shocked about politics in DC?), using White House computers to develop campaign material, and well… so Bush got Kennyboy Lay’ed in the White House instead of Monica laid, it’s still the same. We’re still getting screwed.

20. “Here, I’ll take it up a notch. I heard Bush had 5 students jailed, beaten, and tortured! Who needs a source. I HEARD it or READ it. Let’s say it was a local source. Yeah, that’s the ticket…”
    LOL! Thanks for the laugh. This board is very repetitious in it’s arguments and I just find myself typing the same retort to their same old arguments over and over. It’s like trying to hold back a sea of mediocre thinking and one-sided perspective with nothing more than a mop. Alwys good for a laugh and a reminder of how self-serving most people are though…

21. A college administration announces that students may be “subject to arrest” if they “disrupt” a speech — a very vague description which leaves everyone here without enough facts to make an informed arguement one way or the other. Disrupting by throwing molotov cocktails? Disrupting by blowing air horns in the president’s ear? We’re not told what the actual intentions were, but Wil manages to assume the worst.
    Furthermore, I must say that it’s quite interesting that Wil and many (most?) others here managed to blame this on George Bush and John Ashcroft. This was the action of a college administration, not the Bush administration. Your willingness to jump on the blame wagon says much about your critical thinking skills. You probably didn’t notice the discrepency, did you?

22. With all the talk about people getting arrested and held without warranty, I find it rather funny that the Bush administration is also getting hammered for NOT investigating, arresting, and holding some of the suspected terrorists directly and indirectly responsible for 9/11.
    Whether he does or he doesn’t, he’s damned in the eyes of some people. I have a feeling that if Bush did something really great, like cure brain cancer, they would probably say it’s a conspiracy against neurologists by putting them out of work.

23. SpaceWriter:
    Right on. Knowledge is power, and there are an awful lot of people basing things without knowledge.
    Dale S:
    Actually, I wouldn’t say that 95% of the posts up here are liberal, go-you-wil-down-with-dumbdumb-Bush posts.
    youngartisan:
    You make a very valid point. It kinda makes me wonder whether this country will ever grow out of its shell and into what it could be – the home of the free.

24. Gee… The President of the United States and his lackey’s couldn’t POSSIBLY have put any pressure on the college administrators to make everything run smoothly…. even if only indirect pressure. Bush is pathetic. Why is he pathetic? Not because he is a Republican, and not because he won the election through shady vote counting. He is pathetic because he constantly contradicts his own statements and policies. He used 9/11 as a means to coerce and sway public opinion in his favor, and detract attention from his recent win of Presidency. He likes to think of himself as a spokesperson for democracy while his actions show otherwise. And, he thinks that picking on Iraq is “just the ticket” and uses the whole terrorist issue as a very flimsy reason to pick a fight with them. If he had a backbone and stuck to his “principles” whether I agreed with them or not, I would at least have respect for him.
    And to all of those constantly droning on and on ad nauseum about Clinton bringing shame on the Presidency….. Snore. One name springs to mind: Richard Nixon. Any defense on that one? Thought not. Clinton may have acted inappropriately, but who cares? Whose business was it to get involved? His wife’s, that’s who. The country and economy were great when he was in office, and the other countries have repeatedly expressed their preference for him. What does cheating have to do with your job? He was not a priest or a monk. Get over it. I suppose ten years after Clinton’s presidency ended certain people will still be going on and on about what a “bad” president he was.
    Get a new gripe because it is old.

25. LG, adultery is not a crime, but lying in court is. I have always stated that I had no problem with Clinton having the affair, but when he lied about it, in court while under oath, he broke any respect he had for the Constitution he swore to uphold. Then he lied to me, directly, on television. How in the hell am I suppose to trust anything this guy has to say? And no, not everybody lies about sex. But, I guess if the economy is good, then he can do any damn thing he wants. That is just sad.
    He also had the affair in the Oval Office. I don’t buy the “that was his personal office” story. Anyone in a corporation in this country caught fooling around in his or her office at work would soon be looking for a new job. I guess you would also not have a problem of him having affairs on the Lincoln Memorial. It’s too bad they’ve closed down the Statue of Liberty. He probably always wanted to try that one out too.
    Nixon did things that were illegal, yes. I have no defense because I know that he was wrong. The problem I have is that you HAVE a defense for someone like Clinton. It’s not something I would be proud of.

26. I went to a taping of Saturday Night Live once and they had this big sign that hung above the audience telling me WHEN to APPLAUD!!
    Can you believe that? Those facists!
    If they don’t like when I choose, or not to, applaud, they should go back to whatever country they’re from!
    I think Ed Asner was hosting that night too.
    Buntz

27. wil: it seems sad to say this…but it takes courage for you post your opinions concerning the president on the blog…’cause you know the blacklist could be one of the coming ‘security’ measures…and that would leave you a permanently unemployed actor…and after they get you…sooner or later they would be coming for the rest of us! d. burr

28. Well, how mind bogglinly interesting. I’ve learned one very important fact from reading these posts.
    NYC has not got a clue.
    At all.
    Printing NEVER AGAIN (look, i can do it too) lends no strength to you arguments whatsoever. for a start.
    Secondly, the only reason Bush and Co are calling this a “war”, is so they can treat anyone they arrest in connection to it as animals. There has not been a formal declaration of war, and in war…two armies are fighting.
    The declaration of terrorists=nazi is histerically wider than arc…simplistic propaganda bullshit. The Nazis were not terrorists, they were a highly organized governament force, who controled a large army and for many years before war broke out, were considered as legit as most other governments. Terrorists use the tactics that they do precisely because they do not have armies to fight with, which is why an army cannot fight a terrorist organization.
    Secondly, Bush deserves no more respect than that which is required for any president. He has not earned more. He has continually show that he is less than intelligent..”the best thing about books is looking at the pictures”..his actions in Alaska and concerning the Kyoto agreement are appallingly short sighted, his so called war has destroyed one vile government and killed a few terrorists and a hell of a lot of innocent afghanis and totally failed to catch Bin LAden, and he is resorting to nazi tactics to keep people from protesting against him. He has incredible double-standards, especially about weapons of mass destruction. Respect? He should think himself lucky that the protest was non verbal and non violent.
    Since the protest was silent and passive, no arrests for “breach of the peace” could have been legal.
    Finally, its interesting to note that NYC finds it upsetting and insulting that some people in the MIddle East want to wipe out America, and his words SEEM to suggest that he thinks that this means everyone in the Middle East. Yet he sees nothing wrong with making war in that area. Hey its all right to want them all dead, right? Because they wat us all dead?
    No.
    Bollocks.
    NYC has also mentioned the idea of living in Iran for a year, and see how readily they want to cut your throat.
    Try walking through Central Park at night.
    Try walking through the Bible Belt wearing a heavy metal T-shirt.
    Try being black in America, or since 9/11, being from the middle east or muslim.

29. Rock on, Fluffy.
    Buntz:
    I appreciate your attempt to bring humor into this.
    However, there’s a big difference between the taping of a comedy show and a President’s commencement address at a large university.
    For a TV show, you’re either paying to sit there, or you are a guest of the producers, in that they are allowing you to sit there and watch a live show.
    For a commencement address, you’ve worked several long years to get a piece of paper. You’ve paid a great deal of money to sit there. It’s not entertainment – it’s commencement, a final act in the higher learning game.

30. “’cause you know the blacklist could be one of the coming ‘security’ measures…and that would leave you a permanently unemployed actor…and after they get you…sooner or later they would be coming for the rest of us! d. burr”
    I’m sorry but paranoia like that is nothing more than laughable. hehee ho ho ho. ::writes down D. burr and sends anonymously to FBI::
    “Try walking through Central Park at night.”
    Done it more than enough times to count. From tip to tip too. NYC is still safe as hell.
    “Try walking through the Bible Belt wearing a heavy metal T-shirt.”
    I’ve been through florida and texas with goth and punkrock buddies of mine. A couple of laughs but we got that in NYC too. Noone cares. A heavy metal Tshirt…haha cmon this isn’t 1985.
    “Try being black in America, or since 9/11, being from the middle east or muslim.”
    I know black, muslim, pakistani, etc people in NYC. They have never had a problem. In fact, todays NY Times had an article on how reace relations in NY actually grew stronger because of this. And as for muslims having a hard time, there has never been more education out there about islam than there is now after 9/11. Mosque open houses, bush quoting the Quaran (?), etc. Don’t forget for every hate crime unfortunatley committed was met with a trememndous outpouring of sympathy and helo from teh community it took place in. The day that sympathy wanes, then its time to worry.

31. Fluffy, first – get a haircut. Being a hippie is out babe.
    NEVER AGAIN, is a phrase used by those of Jewish origins to show that the Holocost will NEVER happen again, it does carry alot of f-ing power. I will not allow the hordes to kill my family, if you want go there and let them kill you!
    Bush is right to treat terrorists like animals, that is what they are. Unfortunatly Bush is coddling them.
    Why does there need to be a formal declaration of war, the terrorists gave a pretty real signal that there is a war, they KILLED 3000 Americans. But that seems Okay with you, outrageous!
    Nazis are terrorist, they did what they did to frighten Jews and kill them. What are the terrorists doing? Frightening and killing Jews.
    The terrorist message and the Nazis is the same we want to kill you and take over the world. You say that organised governments differ in the definitions of Nazi and terrorists, well every government in the Middle East wants to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Those are governments, they fund terrorism, they train them, they protect them. If you can’t see that you are a lying A-rabist or a Left wing fool.
    Armies can fight terrorists, we did it in Afghanistan, we defeated the “werewolves” in and after WWII (a pro-nazi underground in Germany), and we will do it again.
    As for Bush, he wants more oil dependency that is clear, I think more reuseable cleaner fuels should be funded and researched, but that is not the issue here. As for Kyoto, it is a short term issue that does nothing to solve any problems, it would just destroy the US economy, setting it back to pre 1990 levels. That is a terrible solution in a Clinton-Greenspan caused recession.
    I say drill in Alaska! It would be good for the economy, isn’t that what Clinton would have said?
    He sold some oil fields in Gulf of Mexico to Occidental Pretroleum (a company heavily invested in by Gore), for less than the 1980’s price when Reagan tried to sell it, but was blocked by a Democratic congress. I wonder how much slickery Willy got in that deal? -But they are’pro-environment’ yeah right. If so then why in the 8 years C-G held office did no new techs evolve of get funded. Hmm.
    As for Afghanistan, we should have tried to get the Al Queda living there, training to kill US? YOU ARE A NUTBALL. Guess what in war people die, we try to avoid civilian casualties, they try to kill civilians, just like AH and his nazis.
    I don’t know what you mean about the weapons of mass destruction thing. Yeah, we don’t want Saddam to drop nukes on Israel, or shoot them into Europe, bad US. Maybe you didn’t hear Bush just signed a treaty with Russia to further eliminate Nukes. Isn’t that a good thing?
    That is right every islamic nation in the middle east funds terrorism, they want to kill US, so yeah very govenment needs to be changed by ANY means possible. I said, I find it very offensive that they want to kill me, and that is okey-dokey with you. So bullocks to you!
    For your information I have walked in Central Park, alone at night. I’m fine! Rudy cleaned up the city nicely. And I applauded his tactics to get it there.
    I now live in the “bible belt” and many of my friends wear ‘heavy metal tee’s” and nothing happens to them. No one even cares. You are ignorant of the American culture, and it shows.
    Yeah it is so aweful here for blacks, they have the highest per-capita income and status, of any blacks on the planet. As for after 9/11 remeber Danny Pearl, be was executed and tortured by your friends the terrorists. You liberals always play the ‘race card’, how pitiful.
    NEVER AGAIN! NEVER!

32. Hey Grendel, my cousin owns a whore house in Australia, why don’t you go there and visit your mum.

33. I just realized I have better things to do with my time than argue with some close-minded bigot.
    Seeya, NYC. I hope you someday realize a lot of what you’ve said has no place in the world of today.

34. KJG, yeah it especially has no place in the world you want where everyone ives in the forest eating nuts and twigs, smokin’ dope and and poles.
    If anyone is closeminded it is you, and no one is a bigger bigot than those that claim to support the innocent, but don’t want their killers to be brought to justice.
    We used to call it communism. Hope you have fun there.

35. The reason i am so overly critical of my nation is simple. You know if we had the patience as a nation we could catch bin laden without a military force. If Our intelligence agencies would rely more on personnel infiltration instead of technology we might have caught Bin Laden. It would been a painstaking task and dangerous job but we could infiltrated the Alquieda instead of bonbing afghanistan and forcing Bin Laden into permanent hiding. Now whether dead or not a dangerous man will not be caught nor will we know if he is truly dead. If Bush had thought a minute instead of using brute all out military force we could catch this guy. Now he has created a backlash more groups hate us and more groups agree with Al quieda and will join them. Now that we have thrown our bombs we just stabbed ourselves in the back. Al queida has patience and no fear of dying, that is ingredients of a powerful enemy. They killed 3,000 people with no more than a utility knife and a death wish. We have raced to call up to arms and without thinking we’ve become subject to even more threats than before. Granted infiltration would have been longer and more tedious, but it is more effective countering them, not to mention we would be less subjected to diplomatic prolems with other countries. Many countries counter terrorism this way and it can be effective. Terrorism is not like a country we cant easily cut its head off if we conquer its central government. We need to think of terrorism like a disease, infest the area with anitbodies to destroy it from spreading. Out right military action will only strengthen their disgusting cause. I think Bush’s administration and the American rhetoric “Bomb them Now” is going to become our own “dirty bomb”.
    We may have won the battle but we may lose this war. This administration may become our undoing.

36. “American rhetoric “Bomb them Now””
    Please tell me where you draw this assumption from. No one here said we should bomb them into the stoneage. In fact, all most people want that support the war on terror is for terrorist leaders and cells to be eliminated. That means a hell of a lot more intelligence and strategic operations than it does blind bombing of afghanistan. You are only patronizing the working people of america when you immidiatley assume they want ruthless vengance. Something has to be done, and some of it ain’t gonna be pretty. People will always criticize no matter what the government does, so why should they listen to you?

37. King George and the US of Enron..
    Did you ever see how many fat-cat Enron employees he’s implanted in his administration?
    I can’t afford to buy any special favors at the moment, but it’s nice to know that if I really need to, I can..
    mooooo..

38. We ain’t seen nothin yet.
    McCarthy was dealing with a nation of actual “citizens” (not “consumers”), who had personally taken part in winning World War II. People whose individual life experiences had taught them that they could survive the worst and achieve the best, and that they didn’t have to take shit from bullies.
    Bush, on the other hand, is dealing with an amorphous blob of convenience-addicted couch potatoes who simply switch channels when they don’t like what they see. I think, sadly, that we are witnessing the closing chapters of American history. I believe the people who rule this country are in the process of proving to themselves how much crap they can get away with and how little pretense they really need to do it. I fear that through their collosal arrogance they will destroy our country, by provoking either a war in which we’re the bad guys or an equally disastrous internal revolution. I really hope I’m wrong.

39. oh my lord, i am so glad i live in the land of the free… canada.

40. Yeah, all this talk about free speech and due process is a lot of liberal clap trap, eh? Yeah, from liberals like Arlen Spectre and John McCain.
    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,262065,00.html
    QUOTE:
    … How do you keep the country safe and still protect the Constitution?
    Padilla’s lawyer, Donna Newman, questions the government’s commitment to that latter requirement

41. I’m a Canadian, but unlike a few others that post here (See Lily’s frightening comments) I do pay attention to what is happening in the US. Firstly, a few people commented that Bush himself may have had no part in the decision of the Ohio State board to arrest people who refused to support Bush. Bush has always held himself above reproach. During his campaign, he refused to allow either his own character or that of his father to be called into question. This attitude has reasserted itself since 9/11 in this absurd “with us or against us” notion. Secondly, visit this story of the Houston Chronicle http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/1455502. And all this from a Chief Justice!! “War” time creates the type of environment where it is more important than ever to maintain a just and equal legal system. I think most people are lulled into the notion that these measures are only temporary. I certainly hope so, but a quick scan of CNN.com’s headlines makes me think otherwise.

42. Hmm. My guess is that during Bush’s speech, the audience was seated, and those students who wished to protest by turning their backs needed to stand to do so.
    There is no doubt that arrests are unwarranted in this case. But removal of the protesters from the hall certainly is.
    Imagine how pleased the audience would be, and well-received an equivalent protest would be, if the “Wesley SUCKS!” contingent managed to get a signigicant number of members into the premiere of the latest Star Trek film, and upon the first appearance of Wesley, they stood and turned their backs for the duration of the film.
    Sometimes we need to exercise restraint in the application of our rights. Not every venue is the most appropriate for all speech. And it’s hard to have a rational discussion when an opponent’s only interest is to drown other voices out.

43. hey way to go Wil. Lately I have been completely agreeing with you. Go figure.
    I am still confused exactly how that fuck Bush got into office. We need to get his ass outta there and get someone who can speak english. May as well have Scooby Doo be president.
    Bush I turn my BACK on you biatch!

44. 1. The “thunderous ovation” comment was made by the OSU representative, not by GWB, the Secret Service, FBI, MIB or whatever other agencies you care to name. If you don’t like what he said, as I don’t — then vote for a new OSU president.
    2. Bush is President and Gore is not because BUSH WON THE ELECTION. I voted for Gore, but I have enough respect for the United States to not try to change the rules after the fact. This nation elects Presidents on the basis of the Electoral College. If you don’t think that is fair, write your congressman. But don’t cry for rule changes after you lost the game. The decision went to the Supreme Court because the Constitution is very specific about when electors must cast their votes. The system worked. You may not like it, but that’s your problem. This business of Bush’s illegitimacy is the response of spoiled crybabies. You know who you are. Try and have small shard of the self-respect and decency that Al Gore has shown and STFU until 2004.
    3. To those of you cowards who agree with this “Not in my Name” petition — and you sent it to FARK, didn’t you Wil—? Well, that’s your right. And I’m not talking about physical cowardice, although there are plenty of non-famous, non-actors out there right now in the cold defending your right to be self-righteous. These people love their kids and swell new wives and dogs as much as the next celebrity, but they seem willing to forgo that, perhaps foever, to defend this nation and your right to disagree. No, I am instead referring to the moral cowardice of people like YOUNGSRTISAN who accuses the US of wildly bombing everything in sight. He seems to think that this might make those poor misunderstood terrorists ANGRY and then what will we do?
    Well, there’s a lot to say about this, but I’ll try to keep it brief. First, we didn’t bomb everything in sight, but we did wash the terrorists out of Afganistan pretty well, for which the majority of their people seem very grateful. I guess you were sleeping late on the morning of Sept. 11, YOUNG, but the fact is they launched that attack, not us. They did it because they thought it would get them what they wanted. They did it because they were counting on people like you and Wil and Noam and the rest. Listen to Bin Laden’s own training videos, and they’ll tell you that America is a nation of cowards and spoiled crybabies and all we’ll do is lob a Clintonian cruise missile or two and then we’ll back down. Bad call, Bin.
    I know this must hurt the brains of most of you out there, but try to imagine for a moment what living in the world they want to make would be like for YOU.
    Now undoubtedly Wil is getting red in the face and is about to say how much he’s against those darn terrorists and who am I to put words in his mouth? But by backing drivel like the “Not in our Name” manifesto, you logically end up in the No Military Action camp, and this is what they are depending on. Don’t believe me? Study THEIR recruitment tapes. Listen to what THEY say about us.
    I know you wacky young idealists are not big on history, or education for that matter, but just once, read something, will you? I recommend you take a look at the period before WW2 when Hitler and the Nazis used the legitimate grievances of the Treaty of Versailles to cow England, France, the US and others into thinking that we were being unfair to the poor, misunderstood, badly-treated Germans.
    The moral of this story is that there are bad people out there who want us dead, and they aren’t just typing on Blog sites either. They are serious. They mean business. And they know that well-meaning cowards like you will do ANYTHING to avoid a fight. So don’t worry about them having an A-bomb, YOUNG and the rest of you, because if they had one they would have used it on Sept 11th. These people are murderers, and fascists, and women-hating religious lunatics and they laugh at the idea of reasoning with them as did Hitler between pious treaty signings. These people must be killed. And it is moral cowardice to say anything else, because you are ignoring their own very clear words and flying in the face of history because you think that appeasing them will make them go away and you won’t get hurt. The people on that “Not in my Name” list (no Wil Wheaton? Man, you’re FAMOUS!) are not traitors. They are merely idiots and cowards.
    A final word about this “assault on our liberties:” The only thing under assault these days is the willingness to listen to your Constitutionally-protected right to bash the country that has given you these freedoms. Your freedom of speech is in no danger, but your freedom to say this drivel without a response is in mortal peril, and thank God for that. Your rights are not being violated, but your opinions ARE being ridiculed by your fellow citizens who have a little more common sense and who seemed to have been paying attention during that September morning of last year. Feeling a little intimidated, are you? Good. Try writing a conservative newspaper at Berkeley and see what happens.
    There have been three really exceptional Republican presidents in our history. The first and best of them faced a crisis that makes this one look as dangerous as a Partridge Family reunion concert. Abraham Lincoln was called an idiot, a bumkin, a tyrant, a despot, and a monkey. He suspended the Writ of Habeus Corpus and assumed dictatorial power over the press to curtail defeatism and sedition. His Secretary of War, Stanton — one of the most unpleasant men ever to hold office — bragged that by ringing a small silver bell on his desk he could send a person to prison without charges, forever. And so he could. And so he did.
    Lincoln had the moral courage to take these actions because Lincoln wanted one thing and one thing only: to preserve the Unites States of America. He believed that this Great Experiment in self rule happened perhaps only once in all human history. He said repeatedly that he perceived that he must bend the Constitution in order to save it, and he did.
    And when Lincoln was gone, and nothing but the bitter, snarling, hateful Jacobins were left, do you know what happened to these dictatorial powers? They disappeared. So relax. We’ve been through much worse than this, and Lincoln knew it. He talked openly about how his trials and errors would hopefully throw light on similar problems to be faced by other Americans generations hence. And here we are. And there he stands, or perhaps sits, in that memorial, while liberal moralist University presidents like Woodrow Wilson gave us the gift of Adolf Hitler and World War 2
    And now, a quick shout out to some of my new Homies:
    Fluffy, you’re an idiot. I don’t think you’ve ever been in the south, for one, because ‘heavy metal’ lives large down there and people are far more polite, decent and informed than you seem to be. “Heavy Metal T-shirts!” Fluffy, you’re killing me here! Have a clichectomy, please! And as far as being ‘black in America,’ I for some reason rather doubt you are black, or perhaps even American. Who says “bollocks?” over here? I don’t presume to say what it must be like to be a dole-sucking European gutless turd, so play fair, huh? Regardless, there are a great many black men and women in the military defending your freedom to be a moron, so I don’t see how your point really makes much sense when it’s all said and done. I suspect you’re just another spoiled middle-class white kid trying to sound like a Champion of Justice.
    PS We didn’t catch Bin laden in Afganistan? He’s been awwwwwwfulllly quiet during the last few months. He was on TV pretty much every week prior to 9/11, but he sat out the whole Israeli invasion without so much as a PEEP. You probably think THAT’S CAUSE HE’S HIDING and he can’t anonomously drop a VHS tape in the mail for five months. Maybe. Or maybe he’s Jello on the wall in a cave someplace. I sure hope so.
    Finally, to all you British and Canadian whiners out there, let me simply close by saying that Britain nearly lost its ass in WW2 with this appeasement mentality, and they were only saved at the last minute by…Winston Churchill. Ho-ho! You thought I was going to say America, didn’t you? WC didn’t mince words. He knew the kind of people he was up against. Tony Blair seems to get it too, and for that he’s labeled a US puppet. Yeah, ED, I’m talking to you. Read a little of your own history and cower in shame, you and the rest of the spineless wonders who have nearly killed the spirit of a once-great nation.
    And Deanna and the rest of you charming, decent, well-educated, Canadians… How on earth have you managed over the years to remain so completely, totally irrelevant as a Nation? We love you, we do, honestly. You have been great friends and neighbors. But hearing you lecture us on how to behave as a world power is like listening to Wil give acting advice to Robert De Niro. Bob has done some truly awful work as an actor, some embarrassing, dreadful stuff. (I know we are all waiting for Rocky and Bullwinkle 2.) But, like the US, where he fails he fails greatly, because he has the courage to take great chances and is not afraid to try. It’s easy for Canadians to criticize from their position in their quiet, safe, utterly inconsequential corner of the political world. But your entire national identity is completely encapsuled in the ways you claim to be ‘not us.’ How very sad. The day Canada shows a particle of leadership is the day that the criticism will begin to flow in the other direction. Having said that, rest assured that your well-hidden sniping spot is secure for the forseeable future.
    (This only applies to you liberal whiners and not your excellent troops currently at risk defending your freedom. Those people, and their supporters, either Canadian, British, German, or whetever, have my deep respect and gratitude.)
    Well, I’d like to go on, but I do have to go to work tomorrow so that my tax dollars can pay for more aircraft carriers, fighter-bombers, and special forces units. They are defending this country IN MY NAME and I am damn proud of them.
    Enjoy the free ride. Your freedom is paid for, so blog away, by all means.

45. So NYC are you saying that Americans are no longer permitted to live and work in other countries – even those of our allies?
    And you would be from a family of pimps by your own admission. . .

46. Proteus…what was the name of that New Radicals CD? Maybe you’ve been brainwashed too?
    Anyway, I find it mildly disgusting that nearly all conservatives can’t put up a counter-argument without stooping to name-calling. It’s fine to disagree with someone, but just because they say something you don’t like doesn’t mean you call them an idiot or in KJB’s case state their their mother is an Australian prostitute.
    Not only is it offensive but it really cheapens your case. If someone calls me an ass and then makes a very legitimate and well-thought statement odds are I won’t be listening because by calling me an ass right off the bat they demonstrate an immaturity and a lack of respect for the other side, and why would I want to someone who feels the need to insult me to get a point across?
    Also, the freedoms our government threatens are very important. Why fight for freedom in other countries when they’re being slowly tightened here? It is pathetic that we can’t disagree with the government without being likened to communists (which I believe would strengthen the cry of McCarthyism, by the way) or even beind likened to terrorist-lovers. The problem isn’t that we’re coddling the terrorists, but that we’re upsetting some already unstable relationships with other countries we would be at least at an uneasy truce with.
    Aside from that, the security laws which were rushed through congress and directly by-pass a citizen’s right to privacy frankly alarms and maybe even frightens me. I don’t know who could be watching me now, and the thought that any number of people could be monitoring my slacking off at work, downloading or pornography or illegal pirated mp3’s, or reading my spam makes me shudder. (note: this is meant to be with a sense of humor. If you are caught using the previous statement in a counterpoint you will be severely ignored).
    So stop being a bunch of hypocritcal insulting sphincters! (once again, irony, not intended to be taken seriously, etc…)

47. “So an anonymous posting on a discussion board of a radical left web site is now considered journalism? Good grief, man.” -ljromanoff
    Will, you are such a sucker. I can’t believe you fell for this obvious hoax. But it goes to show how eager we are to believe what we want to to be true. I might’ve taken the bait had this been about Clinton…

48. Jeez, it’s almost like a war in here now. We have different opinions and that give us the right to call each other the words that have been mentioned in here? Come on!!!

49. re: dale s…and his fbi comment…who’s paranoid now? d.burr.

50. I’ll say it again and again:
    PEACE OUT.
    And NO, hippies never die or give up.
    GIVE PEACE A FUCKIN CHANCE!

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