When I heard about the US Government’s TIPS program this morning, I nearly choked on my breakfast. I’ve been struggling with my outrage and astonishment at this program all day, trying to compose myself long enough to write about it, but my friend Tom Tomorrow has managed to put into words exactly what I am feeling, far more eloquently than I ever could, so I’ll freely steal it from him:
“Facism is a term thrown about too freely, and I don’t believe we’re at a point that its use is justified–but an oppressive and intrusive government, however you want to label it, does not ride into town wearing the uniforms and waving the flags of recognizable evil. It creeps in slowly, wrapped in the flag of your own country, and speaking the language of patriotism and duty, and at each step along the way, its actions seem plausible and defensible–until one morning you wake up and realize the gulf between the way things were and the way things are has grown so wide that there is no going back. Sinclair Lewis tried to point this out more than a half century ago, and given the current climate, It Can’t Happen Here is well worth re-reading (or reading for the first time, if you’ve never come across it before).”
kman go back to kmart. you liberal nut!!
First of all, I’d like to say hello to everyone at the Justice Department…
Why are we so willing to hand over our rights and privacy to a government led by men who aren’t even willing to make accurate accounting of their business dealings?
These guys are crooks, and not even in the Nixonian sense. Tricky Dick was a megalomaniac who saw enemies everywhere, but this current batch makes him look like a well-adjusted human being, and that is no easy task. The men in charge have frequently worked around the system of checks and balances, or just ignored it. They are thieves, emboldened more than anything by their obnoxious sense of entitlement.
But what am I saying? There is still plenty of Afghan rubble to blow up. All hail the War On Terror, and the stupefying approval ratings it brings!
Wake up. Please, I am begging you to wake up. It’s later than you think…
Hey sims, watch-out the sky is falling!!
gee, I wonder who is watchig this web site and reading all of theses “subversive” comments…???
watch out everyone.. ya just never know who will
turn you in.
Wil + everyone…
has anyone seen a movie that came out a few months ago…
STAR WARS II: ATTACK OF THE CLONES ?
then you have seen how the evil Senator has set up
everything for what he wants.. how he has blinded the Jedi and others to carry out his evil ways..
now, I know it is just a story.. but sometimes
history repeats itself… think back.. look at how Hitler set things up.. learn from it.. but
do not panic.. and as a refresher thought;
as Wil should know with his history in
“anti-matter”, anti, means “against” in simple
terms.. anti-“matter” doesn’t mix safely with
“matter” “anti-Christ” is anything..
“anti-Christain” which can be anything…
a man, a women, child, system, government and
yes, any religious order that stands against what
Christ stood for, his Fathers system, or “Kingdom”
just remember; “powerful the Dark side is”
may the “Force” be with you all, always.
Higher percentage of the population than the Stasi? Now, that’s something America should really struggle to achieve.
here is an interesting quote;
“Fascism is capitalism in decay.”
-Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov)
You know what I hope?
I hope that this silly little TIPS program is totally ignored.
Utterly.
Completely.
THAT would make me happy, and with any luck, it’ll happen.
The Washington Post’s pretty pissed about the whole affair http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63924-2002Jul12.html
And http://www.aclu.org aren’t too chuffed either.
Yeah, this is scary. Read Ann Coulter’s book “Slander”, and find out why!
Wil, I didn’t realize you are a member of the vast leftwing conspiracy. Tom Tomorrow, is a NUT. Why can’t you express your own ideas without copying and pasting someone elses neurotic rants. This is just leftist-socialist-commie pablum being spewed from every feted orifice.
This TIPS plan seems perfectly logical to me, report if you see someone watching a powerplant, or following pilots. Get real this is a good idea. Comparing this to the Stasi, is a vapid attemt to demonize Bush. I guess you guys are just upset that the CIA and Social Security system (that Democrats created – Truman and FDR), don’t keep enough info on US citizens. Think about it, the Stasi kept a file on every East German citizen, the Social Security system does the same thing. The Tips system is nothing like that. It is just a forum for people to report illegal and suspicious activity.
(Look up info about Truman, he was more like Hitler than Bush will EVER be. Radiation and blast tests on soldiers, old women, kids and babies. In one incident a radioactive cloud went over a school in Nevada. Every student, teacher and staff was killed in a slow agonizing death. When a mother of a dead boy wrote Truman and asked, “Why?”; he responded with “The loss of your son was a small price to pay for the defense of your nation.” Tell me what is worse, Truman and the tests or Bush and his detention of criminals – yes illegals are commiting a crime. You liberals ALWAYS support the guilty over the BLOOD of the innocent. Why should 9-11 be any different. Clear the world of murders, drug dealers and other scum and the world would be a much better place.)
I guess the majority of people here at pro-terror central, would like everyone to ignore a guy stealing identification, or photographing personnel at the airport. Increadibly NUTS you people certainly are, indeed!
Oh, did you know that Clinton pees in the sink. I just think its funny, what a lazy prick he is.
Did you think Clinton was right or wrong for bombing and occuping Yugoslavia? Oh yeah, you support terrorism, so I guess you did!
NEVER FORGET!!
NEVER AGAIN!!
I don’t know what Clinton’s urinationn ahs to do with this.
The prblem is when do they report? When people are watching (i.e. looking at) a powerplant? That makes them terrorists?
Germany let Hitler do all these things, too. The Reichstag was blown in a terrorist attack. The country’s economy was in decline. Hitler had informants, as well.
The Stasi worked that way, too.
Imagine someone insulting a bus driver. An hour later, he is known to the FBI as suspect.
Neighborhoods, watch out.
Here is a paragraph from the Washington Post article:
“Public vigilance is a good thing, and so is encouraging citizens to alert authorities to terrorist activity. It makes sense to educate people who work at potential targets or at places where lethal cargo may be smuggled. But having the government recruit informants among letter carriers and utility workers — people who enter the homes of Americans for reasons unrelated to law enforcement — is an entirely different matter. Americans should not be subjecting themselves to law enforcement scrutiny merely by having cable lines installed, mail delivered or meters read. Police cannot routinely enter people’s houses without either permission or a warrant. They should not be using utility workers to conduct surveillance they could not lawfully conduct themselves.”
While I agree with this statement in general, does this mean that if a cable installer enters a home and finds evidence of kidnapping, bomb making, or murder, he should just ignore it. That is ludicrous. The police and FBI are not going to bust down someone’s door if a mailman tells them there is a joint in the bedroom.
Some of you are making the claim that this system will be used to turn in someone just because they blink too fast or they are atheists. Do you think these claims would stand up in court? Are police and the FBI arresting people now because of their religious beliefs?
Personally, I think all of this stems from the fact that some people hate Bush with such extreme prejudice that no matter what he does, they will always twist it into the worst possible view and then start screaming impeachment.
On the other hand:
Do YOU think that evidence of kidnapping et al is only told to the police because of TIPS? That a cable worker otherwise wouldn’t call? Then why is TIPS needed?
Whoo Hoo!
I just volunteered for the TIPS program! I can’t wait to report on all the anti-american activities taking place here in Thunder Bay, Ontario!
Believe it or not, they didn’t have Ontario in their list of states! Come on! Everybody knows we’re the 57th state!
Dan
Someone wrote: “We’ll never know who’s listening, waiting to report our unpatriotic sentiments to Uncle Sam”
The TIPS website says:
“Every participant in this new program will be given an Operation TIPS information sticker to be affixed to the cab of their vehicle or placed in some other public location so that the toll-free reporting number is readily available.”
None too covert.
Not that I’m thrilled about the idea of my utility workers being recruited as spies (thin end of the wedge)…
Wil,
You have a FBI file. We are watching you.
Everyone contact your representative immediately! http://www.congress.org provides excellent utilities for this – we must express our concerns.
I can’t type much right now, I’m so pissed. I, too, am choking on my breakfast. This…this….Damn, this is makes me so mad!!
Instead of repeating everything, my response is here:
http://www.seadoc.net/sd/archives/000153.html
It still amazes me that some people harp on others political beliefs. Calling them a “nut” or
“leftist” or what ever. Must everyone have a label put on them? Why can’t people just say, “well, that’s your opinion and this is mine.” Is that so hard in today’s societey?
If so, that’s pretty disgusting. But, that is my opinion. What’s yours?
All this from an Australian newspaper? No sites from an American Journalist? I don’t see a TIPS program discussed at all on CNN, Foxnews or USAToday.
It’s good to know that there are two sides to this issue. If everyone reading Wil’s glorious bit of the web were of the same mind-set, then we would have cause for worry. It is the balance of having opinions, being able to voice them, and the subsequent resolution of issues based on compromise that gives us the freedom we so quickly take for granted. If you do one thing today, do this: Take all of this information, disseminate it on your own, and form an un-biased opinion that fits with your beliefs, your morality, and your sense of self. The real danger lies in hearing, reading, or witnessing an aggressive stance on one side of the fence or the other, and blindly agreeing or capitulating. Form an opinion, keep the opinion, speak your mind. It is the last true freedom you have left.
And now for some perspective.
Since people can volunteer for the TIPS program, and there’s safety in numbers, chances are quite good that they’ll take everyone they can.
Even the cranks.
The people who call up and report their wives.
The people who say, in the words of George Carlin, they can spot a guilty person…JUST LIKE THAT.
The people who report Hitler and Elvis seen drinking coffee and evilly rubbing their hands together.
The people who eat butter for lunch.
The people who aren’t crazy, just silly, and feel the need to call every twenty minutes, with reports that conflict each other.
The people who are so lonely that they call and call and call, just to say hi to someone, anyone, EVERYONE.
Oh, yeah.
Your tax dollars at work.
Anyone who lives in a community with a Homeowner’s Association (heavy emphasis on the ASS) already has the Community Gestapo minding their business for them.
That having been said, it’s a damn shame that my fourteen-month-old daughter won’t grow up in a country that even remotely resembles the America I grew up in.
I’m going to start spelling it, “Amerika.” It has a Cold War feel to it.
We’ve met the enemy, and it’s us.
(adjust tin foil hat) FOX MULDER was right!
Interesting.
Why is it that every time Wil posts something like this, and is justifiably worried, and a large number of people react in shock etc…all these weirdo Right-wingers start a-poppin out of the woodwork? Where do they get the justification for all the random insults and assaults on everyone who doesn’t like whats going on?
“Leftwing conspiracy” – thats a good one.
Listen. The reason we’re all worried about stuff like TIPS is that it has vast, vast potential for corruption and abuse on an unprecidented scale. As Rob Matushika points out, ANYONE could join this program, the loonies, the nuts, the psychos, any monkey with a personal agenda could use the horrendously wide-ranging powers of this idea to their own ends. Believe me, it won’t just be the dodgy looking man who hands around the power station for no good reason, who gets informed upon. Itll be the Black guy that some redneck wants to screw over, the “alternative religion” follower who annoys mrs Miggins one day…personal grudges will get dusted off like never before.
Cant you see that?
Also, since when is it protecting the guilty when you want to ensure that the personal freedoms that our forebearers fought so hard for stay intact? Since when is it supporting terrorism, when you want to ensure that the innocent are not treated as guilty?
Every single clampdown, every peice of liberty frittered away on paranoid attempts to keep controlover peoples lives is a victory for the enemy.
THey want us scared.
They want us running around looking at each other with suspision.
The range of people, ethnic diversity and religion in America is so wide that such a system will damage more than it protects.
Think about it.
The Terrorism Information and Prevention System (Operation TIPS) should also known as the Special Human Intelligence Team.
Thank God I live in Canada where we aren’t nearly as organized to pull of such a terrifying piece of legislation. Wil, you could always move to Toronto! 🙂
Well said, Fluffy.
AngryPenguin said:
>It still amazes me that some people harp on >others political beliefs. Calling them a “nut” or
>”leftist” or what ever. Must everyone have a >label put on them? Why can’t people just >say, “well, that’s your opinion and this is >mine.”
It seems that many people, regardless of how they identify themselves politically and ideologically, are not able to discuss ideas and opinions. They’re much more comfortable throwing out insults and name-calling…IMHO they do this because any suggestion which challenges their personal version of How Things Are(tm) is terrifying to them, and they fear that if they even respect another’s right to have this opinion they’re somehow betraying their own beliefs.
Just my .02 I could be wrong.
Its the thought police.
I’m scared now..
I read a customer review of Sinclair Lewis’ book and…Tom Tomorrow recommended this book?!? Part of the review stated: “The particular targets of Lewis’ contempt are just about everybody. Fascists, Communists, Liberals, Conservatives, Homosexuals, Jews, Blacks, Capitalists, Religious leaders and constitutional democracy all receive the point of his spear…”
Ugh. I think maybe George Orwell’s 1984 might be more appropriate.
I’m not personally afraid of the idea *in theory* of a national database for tips to combat terrorist plots. I’m all for reporting suspicious activity to the appropriate authorities. It’s the reality of this, the grand temptation for abuse, the infringing of our rights, the person who would be all too eager to sign up and report anyone wearing a turban that makes me worry. As a member of at least 3 minority groups, I’m more than a little nervous. How many people got the attention of McCarthy’s little committee simply for voicing unpopular opinions?
And um, what Fluffy said.
…”You’re sharpening stones,
walking on coals
to improve your business acumen”…
It’s funny when a person who claims to hate people who sling insults and slander use phrases like “weirdo Right-wingers”. Now, I am as center of road as a person can get, but I found this a little hypocritical.
I cannot honestly believe this is happening. Is there anything that we can do to stop this from going on? It sounds like it’s already happening.
There are already numbers you can call to report suspicious behavior. There was no rule previously that you couldn’t report something suspicious. Setting up a system like this isn’t necessary to address that. It seems to encourage the people involved to actively snoop as opposed to just being vigilant. And I think we’ve seen that the problem is not so much with the scope and power of our intelligence agencies as with their ability to communicate internally and with other intelligence organizations to make best use of the information they already have. This TIPS program is just blowing smoke while nothing is being done to address the organizational issues, same as with the Homeland Security deal.
As Mike mentioned in an earlier post, I am reminded again and again of the excellent Next Generation episode ‘Drumhead.’
Where is Captain Picard when we need him?
1. Massive increase in military spending.
2. Instigation of the leader by dubious means.
3. Recruitment of public workers to report suspicious activity.
4. Withdrawal from treaties/agreements recognised by the rest of the world.
5. A radically paranoid policy against non-nationals
6. Sustained foreign diplomatic activity ‘are you with us or against us’.
7. A national policy called ‘Protection Of the Homeland’ (word for word!)
8. Antagonistic foreign policy designed to build national tension.
9. Initiated attacks on other states that represented a threat to the nation.
10.National fervour and flag waving declaring the leader as a saviour and hero.
Nazi Germany 1930’s
or
?
Don’t we have a Rememberance/Veterans Day every year ‘lest we forget’ ? And to make sure ‘it never ever happens again’ ?
Paranoia – no. Fear – YES. Somebody stop him. Last time this happened 26 million people had to die before it was sorted. How many this time ?
you people are way to paranoid
Kyrandos, near the top, says:
“Oh shut up Wil. It’s a crappy idea, but don’t get yer damn panties in a knot. We’re not all gonna die.”
Well as long as we’re not going to die, I guess none of us have anything to complain about. I feel much better about life now.
I quote: “It’s funny when a person who claims to hate people who sling insults and slander use phrases like “weirdo Right-wingers”. Now, I am as center of road as a person can get, but I found this a little hypocritical.”
My apologies. In my attempt to highlight something a regard as a major problem in debates like this, I went and slipped up and commited the act that i was trying to speak out against.
Whoops. My bad.
Ive been thinking about this TIPS thing, and trying to see it from the other angle. It still looks to me that it won’t work, and will become bogged down in a quagmire of abuses of the system for petty and personal reasons. You see, even if you are Right-Wing or Left-Wing, you can still learn from history.
In Salem and during the Macarthy trials (sorry to bring them up again, but the parallels are to blatant to ignore), merely being accused was enough to destroy lives. When a system is put in place that condemns a person because they are accused, before evidence is brough before a court of Law, then justice goes right out the window.
I’ll give you an example. Here in Britian, one of our Celebs was shot dead outside her home. The police eventually anounced the arrest of a man who they said they had evidence against. he was accused of the murder, and was set up as a savage monster, villified BEFORE he had even been to court. After his conviction, it now turns out that the evidence is so shaky that there could have been a miscarraige of justice. But it doesnt matter, because he is already viewed as the killer…even if it is later shown that hes not.
its not justice to lock up an innocent person when the guilty one cannot be found.
He who ignores the past is doomed to repeat it.
(ominous sound of jackboots marching….)
In the UK we have lived under the shadow of terrorism for the past 35 Years, a shadow that only now is passing. Over this significant span of time the British Government has never came close to implementing anything as extreme or draconian as the measures put in place under the Patriot Act or the ever increasing series of “Security Measures” implemented by the departent of homeland defence. Admitedly the Uk governments own response has been suitably paranoid, with the ideas such as national identity cards and new IT snooping powers being drafted, but these measures have been greatly limited through reasonable parlimentary debate and are not as extreme as had first been feared. It is my hope that this process is repeated in the US before the land of the free becomes the land of the watched and the home of the fearful. What must be kept in mind is that once these measures are in place, it is highly unlikely that they will ever be revoked and as a result will only be built on as no politician will want to appear weak on the subject of security against both internal and external threats. One final point must be made about accountability. Although the US legal system does account for such eventualities the point must again be stressed that no politicians or accountable bodies will want to be seen as weak on security issues and will treat a personal grievence with the same determination and conviction as a serious threat creating an air of fear and mistrust between people and government alike.
to draw my ramblings of a drunken old hobo to a close, one final thought must be this STTNG Production no 152, stardate 43173.5… Who Watches the Watchers?
First off, the BBC is a reputable news organization. The other link I posted was from a Pakistanian newspaper. I doubt either is anything like the “National Enquirer”.
Now, for all of those with blinders on…
With the new “Patriot Act”, a LOT of our rights get taken away, and it gives authorities the right to:
a. Immunity from wiretaps (Sec. 225) – Basically, they can come into your house, wire it, not even tell you about it, and use it for evidence in a court of law.
b. The ability to look at your bank account any time (Sec. 312)
c. DNA identification of terrorists and other offenders (Sec. 512) – basically allows them to take DNA from anyone that has been arrested for any reason – and catalog it (notice how they conveniently added the “other offenders”?)
d. Authorization of funds for dea police training in south and central asia (Sec. 1007) What the heck does that have to do with terrorism??
That’s only a very few of the over 1,000 new items that were passed in the “Patriot Act”.
Now, sure, you might say that “Well, if I have nothing to hide, then they can look anyway”. Do YOU want ANY individual of authority looking into your personal information any time they want? All it takes is ONE person with a vandetta against you, a family member, a friend, etc. to take action. Believe me, I’ve been dealing with politicians for going on ten years now…it’s all about personal gain and personal interests. It’s all corrupt anymore.
And, secondly, this is a repeat of the 1950’s when AMERICAN CITIZENS were accused of being russian spies, even though the government had no evidence! Would YOU want to be falsely labled as a “terrorist”? Would you want to live with that “label” the rest of your life? You would be an outcast of society! Sure, they can say they screwed up, but you’ll still live with that label. People will still treat you differently.
And, this TIPS thing? It’ll pit neighbor against neighbor! Do you want your neighbor watching your every move? Do you want your neighbor to label you as a “terrorist”?
This is worse than racial profiling!
Believe me, I love America and am PROUD to be an American, but I’m not happy with my government.
Bush himself even said “A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there’s no question about it.” (Thursday, July 26, 2001)
And, about the war in Afghanistan.
As I stated earler, the current administration planned to attack even BEFORE 9/11. A quote from the article:
26 June 2001: India and Iran will “facilitate” US and Russian plans for military action against the Taliban if the contemplated tough new economic sanctions don’t bend Afghanistan’s fundamentalist regime.
Now…that was dated June 26, 2001 – nearly two months PRIOR to 9/11.
And, bin Laden supposedly is on dialysis? What, are they dragging the dialysys machine from cave to cave? And these videotapes…how is it that an average random citizen in Afghanistan will magically have a videotape of bin Laden in their house, but the CIA, FBI, and all of our military forces cant find him??
Do they really want to find him? No. If they did, they’d have to end the war. The war has NOTHING to do with bin Laden, it has to do with the fact that the US wants to run an oil pipeline across Afghanistan from Russia.
Did I mention that Bush’s daddy owns several oil wells over there? Coincidence?
Here’s one of the latest headlines:
“Bush Endorses National ID and New Government Secrecy Measures”
What’s next? All newborns will be required to have “Digital Angel” (http://www.digitalangel.net) implants so they can watch their every move?
Our kids are forced to take shots for other stuff, what’s to stop them from forcing the implants as well??
if this “tips” program is for real…reality is finally catching up to science fiction in the worst possible way…george orwell would not be surprised…we used to sneer at the communists for this kind of thing…have we really gone so far down the road to become like the enemy that “lost” the cold war!…d.burr
>>Take all of this information, disseminate it on your own, and form an un-biased opinion that fits with your beliefs, your morality, and your sense of self.>>
First of all, I agree with what you’re saying, but you should note that there’s no such thing as an “un-biased opinion”. Our bias is affected by everything, our hair colour, what I ate for breakfast, what happened to me yesterday…all shape who I am, and what I believe. I believe that what you meant to say was that people should read all they can, learn all they can, and try and recognize the bias of those people they are getting their information from. Then, try and form an educated opinion, while recognizing your own bias.
>>Now, sure, you might say that “Well, if I have nothing to hide, then they can look anyway”. Do YOU want ANY individual of authority looking>>
Okay, I’ll say it. Here in S Korea teachers are often monitored by the school and parents on closed-circuit tv monitors. Now I’m always amazed at the number of foreigners who freak out over this. Yes, at first it can be a little uncomfortable, but if you’re not doing anything that you shouldn’t be doing with someone else’s children, then why worry about it.
Someone above pointed out that people involved in this program would have their vehicles marked, if this is true than I’d have to agree that it doesn’t sound like anyone’s trying to hide it. So, if the cable man shows up with a sticker, and I’m not making bombs in the basement what do I really have to worry about?
Some of you here would say that I’d have to worry about the crack pot cableman! Well, don’t police agencies already deal with crack-pots? Aren’t they trained to identify crack-pots?
I see this system as being what someone way above stated…an easier way to keep records, relay information through agencies, and an easier method for those who do see something suspicious to have themselves heard, and to know who to go to.
Now, when it gets scary is when improper education occurs. I would hope that there will be some training for these people. They can be taught what to look for, so can everyone for that matter. But, if you preach propaganda, or spread that education in a way that creates paranoia, then you have a problem.
Speaking of S Korea again. There is a “report a spy” telephone number here, you have 119 for emergencies and 11_ for spies. Now, it seems funny, however, a few decades ago this idea was created and accompanied by propaganda that was causing young children to turn in their own parents for nothing. Now that’s frightening. Now, I figure some will write and say that if the US people allow this now, then this is where you are heading…and perhaps you are right, but I just don’t see it.
>>Authorization of funds for dea police training in south and central asia (Sec. 1007) What the heck does that have to do with terrorism??>>
Most Asian police and government institutions have a reputation for being more corrupt. Most Asian countries have weaker police forces, slacker immigration laws, and less money to enforce law. So, Asia is prime territory for the trade of weapons, sale of weapons, sale of drugs and meeting places for terrorist organizations. It is easier to get in and out of the country, and easier to conduct business unnoticed. It is also an easier place to conduct acts of terrorism, hence the previous attacks on US embassies.
That’s what it has to do with terrorism.
Responding to AndrewD:
>All this from an Australian newspaper? No sites from an American Journalist? I don’t see a TIPS program discussed at all on CNN, Foxnews or USAToday.
CNN, Fox, and USAToday have backed the govt. up too much to start bad mouthing it…. i dunno, just a guess
I would like to state that if those two young girls who were recently kidnapped had been implanted with a digital locator device, they just might be at home in bed, safe and sound, instead of missing and possibly murdered. I would give up some of my own personally security and freedom to save the life of a child. No question about it.
What next? A kind of recruitment poster like in “Red Dwarf”?
“Be A Government Informer!
Betray Your Family And Friends!
Fabulous Prizes To Be Won!”
Looking at all of this, I guess living in Indonesia (complete with bombs, radicals, maniacs, useless police force, inept and totally corrupt politicians) is looking better and better.
God, there has to be better days!
Beyond that, I may as well start packing for Antartica! Anyone else?
tanyak, I agree with you totally. Very well said!
In continuation, relating to terrorism in central and south Asia, China has many problems in the western part of their nation, with Al Queda supported terrorists. They are even receiving bomb-blasts in Beijing from these terrorists.
Also, in the Philipines, the Abu Sief rebels, another enclave of Al Queda supported terrorists are kidnapping, torturing and killing forigners and nationals. That is the reason for supporting DEA in the whole of Asia in my opinion. The fact of the matter is that terrorist groups are using drug sales and routes to fund and plan acts of terror. THEY MUST BE STOPPED!
Bryan Gilchrist, you misrepresent the Patriot Act on many fronts. (As is typical for liberals).
(a) Wiretaps. A judge must give permission for the wiretap, as they did before the Patriot Act. Also, the Government is required to inform the person of the tap within three months after the investigation has concluded.
(b) Ability to look at bank accounts anytime, yes and they did before as well. Ever heard of an audit. Ever heard of the IRS. Look it is YOUR side – the left – that refuses a flat tax.
(c) DNA – Yes they keep DNA samples of convicted felons and other terrorists. They also keep fingerprints, are you against this as well? (Typical pro-criminal, anti-victim liberal sentiments).
(d) Look above.
This TIPS program is innocent. You people, people. You watch too much bad sci-fi (ST:TNG was excellent though, I mean like DS9 and Babylon 5) and read too much Communist and Socialist PROPAGANDA. Guess what Hitler was a Socialist, and you people sound as paraniod as he did.
I don’t want more people to die in preventable terrorist actions. Do I complain at the airport when I have to remove my shoes and remove my belt – NO. Why should people ignore obvious criminal acts. They shouldn’t. In the TIPS program, calls are made to a central location and the people who need the info get it now, rather than through the ladder of government.
No, you people would rather have the US held at the wim of criminals. A guy wants to blow up something, the call is made to the police, they call the State Police, they call the FBI. After the time that chain takes to happen the guy is done and people are dead. Oh well, at least the TIPS program isn’t in effect, thank goodness. That is NUTS!!!
Bryan Gilchrist, I think you little conspiracy theory regarding Bush is INSANE. OBL was being coddled by the Taliban. The reason we didn’t get OBL was because he is paste on the wall of a cave somewhere. YEAH!!!!
Oil, let me tell you about oil. Old Gore is an oil man too. Ever heard of Occidental Petroleum. No, look it up. Gore is a rich oil man. Oh yeah Gore’s pappa was a racist, and a democrat (not mutually exclusive). Look up his senate record, you MIGHT be shocked. You think the NUT fell far from the tree? I don’t!
And what the Government should have NO secrets, get real. I do agree a National ID is repulsive and unneeded. Your liberal – socialist UK and commonwealth friends might disagree, after all the UK is looking at that too. Hmm, interesting. Also, no child is FORCED to have vaccinations, idiots that don’t want them can refuse. And very easily too.
E, Fox News did cover the TIPS, on Hannity and Colmes just tonight. As for CNN who knows.
NEVER AGAIN!
DON’T FORGET!
*CORRECTION*
I do NOT complain at the airport.
Thanks :}