We also completely screwed up the rules. For I think the 10th time this season.
I am furious, I am embarrassed, and I need to put there here so I can just refer to it when this almost certainly happens again this season:
We had a producer whose primary job was to make sure we knew the rules to the games, and played correctly. I trusted this producer to be on top of these things, and I trusted this producer to ensure that we played the games properly.
For the first two seasons, this producer did a fantastic job. A couple mistakes got through, but it wasn’t a big deal. Everyone makes a mistake now and then, and the show has always been more about the fun of playing the games than anything else. But something happened in the third season. I don’t know if this producer was careless, overwhelmed, didn’t care as deeply as previous seasons, or just didn’t do the same amount of preparation that was done for the first two seasons. I don’t know why this producer failed to do the most important part of the job so many times this season, but I’m pretty fucking pissed off that the person I trusted to make sure we played the games correctly let me down. I trusted this producer so completely, I spent my time and my energy on other aspects of production, instead of diligently reviewing the rules before every game like I’d done the first two seasons. I feel really, really awful about this. I feel embarrassed by this.
We have a very ambitious production schedule. It’s grueling for all of us, but this season wasn’t any different than the previous two seasons. There is just no excuse for something so fundamental to the show to have been so completely screwed up almost half of the time this season. My trust and reliance was misplaced, I guess, and for that I am embarrassed, I am angry, and I am sorry.
Tabletop is more than just a show where we play games. Tabletop is where millions of people from all over the world go to see how games are played, and to discover new games. We have a responsibility to our audience, and we have let a lot of you down. This is even more infuriating to me this season, because this season was literally made possible by people reaching into their own pockets and trusting us with their money. We had a responsibility to take good care of that, and we didn’t.
Ultimately, I am the host and the face and the identity of Tabletop, so ultimately this falls on me. I take responsibility for these mistakes. I am the executive producer and creator, and it’s my responsibility to ensure that everyone is doing their job. It’s my responsibility to deliver the best show I can, and too many times this season I failed to do that.
To the developers whose games we’ve messed up: I am profoundly sorry. I sincerely hope that your sales aren’t hurt by our mistakes, and I sincerely hope you will accept my apologies.
If we do another season of Tabletop, I will ensure that this never happens again. If we do another season of Tabletop, I’m going to very carefully vet a couple of experts and producers to take on the responsibility of ensuring we’re playing games correctly, and I’ll spend even more of my own time getting up to speed on the rules for each game.
So all of that said, please know that Kingdom Builder is a really great game. We had a lot of fun when we played it, even though we completely butchered the rules.
Good on you for owning up that you are ultimately responsible for this problem, but that is where it should have ended. The producer is irrelevant to us and publicly shaming that person does nothing but save face for you. I was really waiting for a moment in the post where you say “That producer was me” and you admit that it was all your fault.
Jeebus. Can we please have a new idiom, please? If I had a nickel for every time I’ve read “thrown under the bus” on this post…
Wil if you need a self confessed rules lawer I am sure I could be convinced to fly to the US XD
maybe the producer is secretly a goober gaboor
This post made me so uncomfortable to read. I personally feel it is inappropriate to post about your former producer in this manner, even if they were in the wrong. Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and apologize for your apology. :/
Ahh the classic blamepology
As some one who works in a youth group with 12-20 year olds if a youth leader under my supervison threw someone under the bus like that he and I would have a chat about how in the PROFESSIONAL WORLD and in the REAL WORLD this sort of behavior isn’t appropriate. Thanks for being a example Wil of how not to act as a leader
Do you teach any of them accountability? Owning their mistakes? If they mess up it is on your shoulders and i am betting your response would be along similiar lines to Wil’s apology.
Well, except the part about completely blaming someone else first. That isn’t accountability; that’s trying to direct the outrage away from you first…
I run a shop sir, of around 20 individuals and something things go wrong. I apologize, explain what my crew did and where I failed to instruct them properly.
THEY are accountable for their errors and I accept that they made an error because of MY misguidance or oversight.
But i do have expectations of them and if they fall short after being given instruction or guidance THEY are accountable.
Which is his job. The person is accountable for their mistakes, and Wil is accountable for the person. This is him explaining that.
I’ve only recently started watching Tabletop, and am not myself a table-top gamer; so I’m aware that there will be a portion of the audience to which the rules are more important. But I feel that, from my position at least, seeing occasional mistakes in the rules not affect the fun you have playing the games, makes the entire hobby seem more accessible. That so long as the agreed rules are applied consistently, and don’t break the game, the games themselves appear like a less daunting of research and reference. As I say, I realize that for those who know the rules, and for yourself making it, this is important. But it hasn’t impeached upon the shows ability to convey the fun of, and be a successful ambassador for the world of tabletop gaming.
It’s okay Wil, we still love you. Please for the love of god don’t stop making this show a reality. Sure, people fuck up. That’s what makes us human, and it helps us relate to you and the crew at Geek and Sundry. As long as you make us laugh and show us the mechanics of the amazing games you play, we’ll keep watching.
I can understand the need for perfection and in particular your desire to show the games in the best light possible.
From the outside looking in, what I know from the games I have played, is this: Getting the rules ‘right’ every time is impossible.
As players we have to adapt and adjust and seeing it happen to others helps each of us in knowing we’re not total f-ups, at least not alone.
Seeing how you recover from doing it ‘wrong’ is something that helps make everyone better.
I’m not sure about all the ‘ that’s so unprofessional’ comments here.
This is a blog entry someone who is angry, yes. Frustrated, disappointed, let down, even hurt. You don’t work with someone for 3 seasons and don’t form relationships.
However, no where do I see ‘unprofessional’. Someone failed at their job. Apparently badly. Stating the fact and the circumstances around it isn’t ‘unprofessional’. It’s information.
Wil owns the ultimate responsibility, but he doesn’t have to hide or protect others from their own failings. Considering how angry/disappointed he seems, I thought it pretty reasonable.
He’s human, guys. Let him be human.
Well, it’s not surprising people would lash out about this. Most don’t really give the situation much thought before commenting. I’d be upset, too, if something that I had created and which had become quite popular had taken a huge hit in reputation due to your most trusted co-worker completely dropping the ball and taking the show from a solid ‘9’ to a ‘3’ in terms of watchability all in the span of one season. This drop in quality no doubt has potential ramifications for future endeavors Wil might want to undertake, as well.
Well said. If more people were truly honest about the things that sometimes go awry in life we would be better off as a species
Pick the dropped ball up, smile and play again.
As the leader of a company/project/whatever, you do not dress down an employee publicly. You make a statement along the lines of “We’ve made mistakes; we’ll get better, and it’s my fault for not catching them and I am frustrated by that.” You do NOT say “well, it’s all X’s fault, and I’m really frustrated at him, but okay I’ll accept responsibility for it.”
It IS unprofessional in any real world setting to air your problems out in the open like this. There’s transparency, sure, but that would have been acknowledging the problem, not passing the buck…
Why so het up? So you mean you don’t play these games for fun yourself? I thought tabletop was a hobby, not just a money spinner.
Thank you for caring about this. Too often people brush it off and move on and don’t admit when something goes wrong. I have been reading your blog for a little while and have enjoyed your take on games and life but have not watched your show. Your upfront apology, and acknowledging that things will change has made me think it is time to try it out. Anytime someone takes their job seriously about sharing a subject I love (games, glorious games) means it is worth taking a look at.
There’s a deeper story here than what is simply outlined in the post Wil made.
First, as postulated, Wil is talking about his former producer, Bo, here.
As to the meat of what Wil is saying: he happens to be right. Bo has clearly been overly distracted creating his own board game that he wants to put on Kickstarter, along with long-flirting with leaving Los Angeles and moving to Seattle – a move he ultimately made. Throw in a temporary love interest, and it’s obvious that Bo had taken on more than he could handle, and what suffered was the production of the show. Not that he cares, given that he left the show to go teach at a technical college.
The production value of this year’s Tabletop has been abysmal. I truly regret backing it. It’s bad enough that the games chosen are pretty weak for what this show is supposed to be about, but the rampant butchering of rules on simple games is so blatantly obvious on well over half the episodes that it’s really taken away from being a fun thing to watch. It’s also a producer’s job to see to it the GUESTS understand what they are playing, and that clearly hasn’t happened this season, either. The episode with Karen Gillan comes immediately to mind where, halfway through the game, she just decided to give up and randomly throw out cards with absolutely no consideration or understanding of what they would do.
Was it bad form to throw Bo under the bus with this blog post? Perhaps. But in a pit of vipers, eventually the vipers will occasionally bite one another. The reality here is that Wil and Bo are both pretty strong personalities in the respect that they both absolutely believe in their knowledge and authority at all times regardless of actual basis or fact (I’ve found them both to be rather passive in person, which creates an odd paradigm). Neither one of them responds well to proof that they might be completely lacking in knowledge to something, anything. To read either of their Facebook and Twitter accounts, this is obvious. Wil as a matter of procedure violates his own law (Don’t be a…), being one towards anybody who thinks differently than his whacky fringe progressive viewpoints to the world (some of these people deserve it, but many are trying to have respectful discourse). So of course when he gets upset, he’s going to go into that mode. Bo finds common ground w/ Wil in the strange fringe-left viewpoint, but adds in a touch of loony by thinking everybody is out to spy on him or get him. He’s never one to take responsibility for anything as a result, so SOMEBODY was going to have to call him out. It was just done in a brutish manner. The reality is they’re both hypocrites – Wil at his core someone who craves to be in an echo chamber and who can be the very thing he preaches to never be to anybody who breaks that echo, and Bo someone who publicly preaches friendship and harmony but in practice tends to be aloof and with an overinflated ego that probably needs to be punctured every so often.
crikes man. Wil was pretty careful to simply refer to the individual as “Producer” I think it’s a bit much of you to notate his name and his crowdsourced project. I mean that’s how you get brigades.
Bo also completely F’d over all his first backers for Pirate Den.
For what it’s worth, when I watch TableTop, I like to see that the players are having a good time. It’s highly unlikely that messing up the rules alters how fun the game is. Chances are that I will “optimize” some rules on my own anyway, for my play group.
I bought Rampage after seeing it on TT. Looking at the tabletop section in my local Target, you can almost see a list of TT episodes. You’re doing good for gaming.
In your own words “Don’t be a dick”.
Did you just break up with someone via your blog? Sure seems that way. Aren’t all the Episodes shot already? How many more games were run wrong? I don’t see anything wrong with what’s been done here, besides some typos. Unprofessional? Meh. Its fringe Hollywood/tv, theres no bar for un/professionalism. Should you maybe have someone read your posts before you post them? Should you ever post while angry? Read your post out loud to the dogs and if it makes them sad, then rewrite it.
I’m sure Wil could have taken a page from one of his favorite coaches and gone with: “We’ve had a few too many errors this season. I’ve talked with my people and we are going to shake things up with the staffing lineup and hopefully that will get things back to the way we like them.” Save all the fire & brimstone talk for a conversation with the actual person getting fired.
The post really reads like: “I am super stressed and things aren’t going the way I wanted them to and everything is not perfect and there are mistakes, more than there should be and I’m freaking out!”
Yes, your mania is hitting a high. Your friends and family are there to help you through times like these. Let them know you need their help.
Wil, I am someone who is very grateful you’ve kept this show going. I got back in gaming because of TableTop – I am a Season 3 Supporter – and I really do hope you continue with a Season 4 (and I will back you again! – btw I ended up with a TT Coin so that should show what I could afford).
The errors that have occurred are now something to monitor and ensure better results for the next season.
Please don’t let this get you down. Mistakes do occur and I would think that the game companies and game stores would not be seeing this resurgence without TableTop leading the way.
Please continue making this wonderful show for all of us and PLAY MORE GAMES!
So: instead of dealing with vetting someone so much… is there room for an audience? A roomful of gamers might help catch some of these things a bit earlier. I have no idea how it would work production-wise, but I’m pretty sure if you looked you could dig up a dozen people in your area who are regulars at BGGcon or the like and thus fairly familiar with the games you’re playing.
I can see both sides of it.
There are issues with the show. Wil explains why there are issues. He does so to give credibility for why those issues will cease. If he just stated there are issues and we will fix it, then it would be harder to believe that they would be fixed. Know what I mean? His pointing the finger at the producer served a purpose.
If this person gained any notoriety from working on the show and this was their only job, then I don’t have a problem with a public dress down. If you have a very public job and you screw up extremely royally, then wouldn’t you expect that to come out? Brian Williams, for example.
On the other hand, this person gained no fame in my book. I don’t know who this is. I don’t know the producers. This person wasn’t “thrown under the bus” in my world. He could have just as easily said Jar Jar Binks screwed it all up and I wouldn’t have known the difference.
So, they either gained some fame and got burned for doing a crappy job or no one knows who this is and it doesn’t really matter.
Meanwhile, I think of Wil as a really nice guy and this wasn’t very nice. Served a purpose? As I said above, yes. Did this guy deserve it? If he is famous in some part of the game community and he sabotaged the show, sure. However, it wasn’t nice. Since everyone has to weigh in, that is my two cents.
throws producer under the bus, bashes them repeatedly and talks about what a shitty job they did
“But no, really guys, I should shoulder this. DONT FORGET HOW SHTTY THAT PRODUCER WAS.”
What a douchebag.
I don’t see any reason to apologise. The episode was great as was the game and I think you should make it a house rule. I got the feeling it actually helped in speeding up the game. Which is always a worthy rule option.
As for the producer – public flogging 🙂 or dress up in drag as punishment?!
Now to something more serious. Shut up and take my money for season 4 and “play more games”
Worry less about getting celebs to play games and get some gamers or designers who know what they’re doing. Keeping rules straight can be difficult. I understand that. But as you pointed out this is a show about board gaming. Imagine watching 20 baseball games and half of them have the rules wrong so badly that it screws up the outcome of the game. Those umps would be fired long before making a 10th fatal-to-the-game mistake.
You call yourself a gamer. Prove it from here on out. Play with gamers. Understand your games. Respect the hobby.
While I disagree with Will’s post and the way he handled this, the expectations to take board gaming so seriously is ridiculous.
Real boardgamers screw up rules.
I’ve had actual designers mess up a minor rule or two while teaching me a demo or playtest of a game they created.
If every baseball game had totally new rules for every game, there’d be mistakes there too. Promise.
Will don’t let “real gamers” turn you into more of a dick than you are already being in this post. Get back to the fun. Your show has never been a “how to play”. We’ve messed up some of the same rules you all did in our first plays of a game, including kingdom builder.
There is not a single game reviewer, how to play pod caster, or live play “celebrity” in the boardgame world who hasn’t messed up rules repeatedly.
So much for “don’t be a dick”.
“I’m sorry and I’m making changes to ensure these embarrassing errors won’t continue,” would have been much better.
Caveat: Opinions are like armpits — everyone has a couple, and they often stink. I’m no exception. Everyone has times when they look back and wish they’d done things differently. I’m also no exception.
I’ve enjoyed WW.N for years, and TableTop since season one. I’ve been a producer on two ‘edutainment’ pilots, and very much appreciate the challenges and anxiety over creating something you really care about.
I wish your response had been more along the lines of “I’m upset we screwed up with the rules. There were two people in the room who were absolutely responsible for knowing them — me and the Co-Producer. On behalf of us both, please accept our apologies for dropping the ball. I hope we still showed how fun Tabletop Kingdom can be, and that you’ll keep watching. And play more games.”
Your persona on the show is one of a fun guy who plays and loves games, and is excited about sharing them. This writeup is telling me that it’s someone else’s job to play and love the games. Throwing your producer into the fire like this does not count as any kind of apology to me, and if your intention is to protect your reputation with your fans, then consider it a backfire with this fan.
Messing up rules for these games is such a petty thing to be mad about. We all know that gamer who won’t let a new player take back a move because they didn’t understand something. They’re entirely missing the point, and I’m worried that you’re starting to miss it, too.
Maybe I’m being entirely too sensitive about this – you DO have plenty of loyal fans backing you up, after all. I just hope I’m not sitting at a table with them any time soon.
Wil – You are having a good run lately with your multiple series. Don’t get wrapped up in it and lose sight of what counts. We all know you are a perfectionist and you are passionate about gaming. I think all of us here are at the very least passionate about it. Communicate with your team in constructive methods. Passive-agressive posts might make you feel better for a minute, but once you hit the send button, they are etched in digital stone long after the moment has passed. We all support the growth of the channel and the series. Keep it strong, keep it respectful, and keep it fun. #respect
So, I’m not a person who usually comments on internet things, like ever, but I feel that I need to say something (I know, I know, like every other person in the universe).
I think a lot of people are missing the major point of Wil’s post. I have seen so many comments about “throwing someone under the bus”, and “as the boss, that was unprofessional” which seems to me to be problematic.
Wil may be “the boss” of Tabletop, but with the Kickstarter Campaign, he answers to his backers in a way that is like a TV series produced with investors. The Kickstarter backers are Wil’s investors. In the world we live in, people are held accountable for their mistakes (or at least they should be), and Wil has an obligation to be transparent and open with his investors. Do you really think that the Showrunner of a series would even hesitate to tell his investors what was actually happening on set and behind the scenes?
So, what I really feel like I need to say is that Tabletop is not a traditional business structure, and we need to judge it accordingly.
Wil takes responsibility for his mistake and lack of oversight in the process, but it needs to be said that the producer whose job it was to know the rules inside and out failed at his or her job. That is a factual statement.
Well, that was longer than I expected.
Very well said Kate. (I think it was Indiegogo, rather than Kickstarter. They could be the same company, I don’t know.)
Though I have to say many people made really good points and suggestions about how it could have been handled better or more professionally.
Wil tends to wear his emotions on his sleeve, and that’s why many of us have come to appreciate him. We trust his sincerity.
I think the biggest lesson learned here is to set ground rules, create checks and balances, within the organized effort BEFORE the project even gets started. Also to have post-mortem meetings after each day of production to go over what went right, what went wrong, and what could be done to improve for the next day.
You’re right. It was Indiegogo. Thanks.
So glad someone made the Brian Williams connection here; I was surprised it took this long.
So many people here are speaking as if this is an issue of black and white, and it certainly is not even close. “Wil, do you like games, or do you just act like you enjoy them for a show?” “Wil, are you nice, or are you really just acting?”
Put yourself in his position. This IS his livelihood, and he is extraordinarily lucky enough that is also happens to be his hobby and joy. What happens at your job when something seriously gets screwed up? The s#!t flows both ways. If someone is not doing their job, especially in an industry like this, it affects everyone, and as the public face, Wil is, for better or worse, held to be responsible as much as the culprit is.
I happen to agree with the above posters that as long as everyone is playing a game on an equal footing, consistent errors in rules aren’t a huge problem. But let’s be honest, the rules are there to establish the system for the game to be competitive in some cases, and at the very least fun; they CAN have a direct impact on how interesting an observer finds the game to be. And regardless of the issue of rules being important or not, it can all be boiled down to this: if you’re going to do something, do it well. If something was not done well, accountability should be next on the list.
Now, maybe Wil is overreacting a touch, who knows? Well, I can imagine him and a few other people. But as someone involved in TV production elsewhere, the errors of those behind the scenes often get stuck to others more visible, unfortunate though that is, and I think Wil took the appropriate amount of responsibility; those responsible for the rest shouldn’t get off scot-free on his back.
My problem is simply that he decided to stop being so careful to learn the rules himself, leaving much more of the rules monitoring up to his producer, and then publically slagged the producer when that turned out to have been a mistake. And he claims not to know why it happened, which (aside from being contradictory and somewhat delusional) suggests he never even talked to said producer before posting this.
In every episode of TableTop I’ve ever seen, the only people on-camera are Wil and the other players. Maybe I haven’t watched enough of them, but I’ve never seen anyone step in from off-set and say, “oh hey, you did that wrong, you need to do it this way”. I’ve never seen abrupt cuts that suggest that mistakes were made, or post-edits where someone says “oops, we did this part wrong, but we figured it out later and corrected for it”. I’ve never seen what appeared to be anything less than spontaneous game-playing, i.e. it was never obvious that they were redoing (or re-enacting) a turn because of a screw-up.
Imagine the change in dynamic if, rather than the players knowing the game, it’s now up to a producer — external to the game — to step in and correct all rules mixups. To repeatedly break the flow, to have to stop and redo segments. Yet all this while keeping the producer off-camera, and keeping the action (ostensibly) spontaneous and free-flowing. Could you even pull that off and still maintain what TableTop has traditionally been?
It sounds like a huge and rather ambitious change, and I’m not too surprised it didn’t work out. But from what Wil’s saying, I don’t see the producer as being to blame. I would have gladly accepted an apology from the two of them together.
But refusing to talk to a former trusted ally and blaming them for all the show’s woes — while technically taking “responsibility”, in the “it’s still my show and so I guess I’m responsible for this guy’s fuckups” sense — is pretty much the literal definition of “throw under the bus”. Especially when it’s done mainly as an attempt to appease the (paying) audience, as you suggest it is.
Besides, the story itself makes no sense. “I spent my time and my energy on other aspects of production, instead of diligently reviewing the rules before every game like I’d done the first two seasons.” … “but this season wasn’t any different than the previous two seasons.” Wha…? “I don’t know why this producer failed to do the most important part of the job so many times this season” yet you’ve just admitted to making that job way harder. WTF, Wil?
This probably won’t make me stop watching TableTop (when I get a chance, anyway) but it is disappointing. It really feels like a blog post made purely in anger, before actually stopping to take stock of the situation and work out a proper statement. And that’s why it’s unprofessional.
Hey buddy – You don’t know me.. obviously, though that’d be awesome. You did a great job on the show. It’s ultimately the responsibility of every gamer to read the rules themselves, before game play starts, so if you missed one here or there, and I bought it and brought it home, while I’m sure I’d still show everyone the “Table Top” version of the game, I’d still pass the rules over to my diligent trust worthy friend for a review. My point is, Don’t be so hard on yourself. You’ve put together something amazing, that I hope continues for a long time to come. Table Top might not JUST be about playing games, but it should be about having fun and getting together with your friends. Anyway, I’ll keep watching, and We’ll keep buying the games you endorse (and some you haven’t yet). Stay Classy double W.
Fellow Gamer –
Stuff happens. It is good to see someone step up to and take responsibility. I suggest joining Board Game Geek if you haven’t already. Good place to find rules clarifications if the rules confuse you. This is what out group does. Good thing for smart phones. Still looking forward to watching you play one of my favorite games (Kingdom Builder). If you ever play my favorite game, Eminent Domain, I’d be available to answer rules questions.
I guess it’s unfortunate that it isn’t the 29th of july, because apparently it’s okay to be a dick on other days. I can’t believe this post has not been removed after a long think on whether this is the correct way to deal with the situation.
I know this is a very important show to him and he’s pouring in his heart and soul but sometimes it might be good to remember that :
a) people hardly watch tabletop to explain the rules, there are better video’s for that, if a game looks fun even when played wrong I highly doubt it will be much worse when played right.
b) there are no lives on the line. in the grand scheme of things I hardly see who gains anything by publicly humiliating someone(and yourself in the process) for something related to what should be a fun activity. (This goes for most of the internet rage I know… , but I was saddened that Wil has not risen above the general negativity of the internet)
I could see how in the spur of the moment someone might post something ill advised. That this post is still up however really puts me off. And it’s unfortunate that this will ruin my enjoyment of Wil’s shows, because some of the “magic” is gone. The facade of these are people playing these games because they enjoy them got removed to reveal people who are playing these games because that’s what they’re paid for without any specific love for the game except for that it “works” on camera.
anyhow I think you(Wil) should think about keeping a second paper blog(also called a diary by some) for things like this where you want to write off some steam but which might not be suitable for the world wide web.
Regards,
W,
Hey Wil,
I’ve still got your back. I know things have been mentally sucky for you lately and I know shit like this is prime moment to get the ol’ “Prove To Everyone” bastard back out of hiding to run you into the depression hole. I will acknowledge (and I hope you do too) that maybe you went a little too into detail in this post of who was at fault, and that was a bit extreme to him, but I also recognize you’re still new to being the leader of a team like this, and these sorts of issues come up when you’ve never really had to deal with it before. You both dun fucked up, others probably have as well on the team. But from these fuckups everyone will learn, and next season of Tabletop will be the next one yet, with no mistakes (there BETTER be a next season – I don’t want this series of events to completely turn you off to the idea!).
Still people out there who love ya, Wil, who appreciate the things you do, and who forgive your fuckups. Forget the Reddit haters. And maybe take a few days to yourself – you’ve been working your ass off.
I can imagine it’s frustrating, and thanks for the honesty. But in some ways it’s good to see people still enjoying the game even if you screw up the rules. The main thing is that all the players agree on what’s happening. I’ve lost count how many games we’ve screwed up on rules and didn’t realize until most of the way through the game. Sometimes we’ve decided to retro-game a few things, stick with the screw up for the rest of that individual game, or decide we like the way we’re playing and make it a house rule.
This whole thing makes me really sad. I’m sad that Wil probably got so pounded on by fans that he felt the need to make a defensive apology, and I’m sad that the producer was thrown under the bus, regardless of whether or not he’s actually messed up as bad as Wil is implying. I’ve always thought Wil was hilarious, and that hasn’t changed, but dealing with the problems that come with being a boss should always be behind closed doors (imo, anyway). For my part, I would have been fine with a “I don’t want to go into details about what is happening, but it is being dealt with” instead of all the blame.
I’ve always loved Tabletop, and it is the main reason why I am now an avid board gamer with a decent size collection, part of a board game group, always watching board gaming channels on youtube (Tabletop is still my favorite though), and constantly on the look out for new games. It all started with Wil, and for that, I’ll continue to watch this show until it’s not being made anymore. I really really hope that this drama doesn’t burn Wil, or any of his other staff, out, because the saddest thing of all would be to let these mistakes ruin the beautiful thing that this team has going.
Here’s to hoping everyone just takes a breathe before the next step.
Wow. So many white knights here, trashing Wil over calling out a member of his team.
This is basically a case of “You had ONE job”.
The whole point of having a production staff is so that you can delegate stuff and not have to sweat every detail yourself. If you have to start double-checking everything a certain person touches, they’re providing NEGATIVE work, negative value. It’s worse than an intern where you have to spend your whole day training them, because at least THAT’s an investment.
This isn’t a matter of jumping all over someone for a single mistake – this is the 10th mistake. Out of 21 episodes. HALF.
If I made even minor mistakes in half of the projects I touch in my job, I’d feel lucky to get off with some blog-shaming and a talking-to.
Wil, run your show how you want, man. Do what you have to do to deliver on the promises you made to your supporters. I don’t think you violated any taboos or eponymous rules here.
i thought the episode was entertaining & the group had great chemistry. hopefully they’ll all be back for future games.
Wil, you and your guests provide endless hours of entertainment for our community and introduce us to games we might not find otherwise. I’ve bought several just from watching the fun you guys had on the show. I don’t care that you make mistakes in the rules, games are supposed to be fun after all. The honesty is appreciated but don’t beat yourselves up about it. The rules don’t make the show successful, having a good blend of personalities playing games (even incorrectly) and having fun are what Tabletop is all about for many of us.
I don’t watch the show to learn the rules. That’s what “Watch it Played” is for. I watch to see how you and everyone enjoy the game, the dynamics of interaction between everyone. It helps me gauge if MY group would enjoy it. Thank you for stepping up and apologizing, but I don’t fault you or anyone for some mistakes.
I think I have botched so many rules in my time. And I completely understand the frustration though with assigning duties to someone and those expectations falling through. I have been a long time fan of Tabletop, and it played a huge role in my headfirst dive into the worl of hobby gaming. As a matter of fact, I purchased Fortune and Glory based solely on my viewing of that tabletop episode, even with the incorrect rules disclaimer (And I never even thought twice about it)
This wording is very unprofessional. I’m not a fan of bosses who blame someone else entirely and throw them under the proverbial bus- then do a 180 and take responsibility.
I realize a gaming company would be upset if there is a mistake, but the way you wrote this (you are upset, I get that) is very unbecoming.
I personally don’t care about the rules very much. I view them more as a guide than something that needs to be followed strictly. House rules make for better games IMO anyway.
Mind telling me why you never bothered to read the rules yourself? I mean, you seem pretty keen on board games and RPGs and promoting them and talking about them and generally expelling your love for them on anyone who would listen… But you can’t take 5 minutes to sit down and read a dozen pages or so? You HAVE TO blame it on your producer? You HAVE TO outsource the blame and make a big flippin’ deal about it and crucify the guy?
YOU, Wil, are the face of this show. You are the host. You are the one who went to your audience and begged for money so you could keep doing the show… And you can’t even be bothered to learn the rules yourself and help the show along in some small way?
How much do you really care that you may have disappointed the fans? Or do you just care that you looked stupid and that this is an embarrassment for you?
If you think it takes five minutes to learn and absorb the rules of a game, I don’t know how I can reach you. In a complex production like ours, everyone has responsibilities. I have to delegate those responsibilities to people who I trust to handle them. In this case — and only this case — it didn’t happen. Even when I read the rules for all 20 games we played, I trusted and relied on people to make sure we didn’t mess up once we were on the set. Once we are on the set, I have to be a host and help keep the game going. I can’t be a rules lawyer, so we had someone to do that.
I hope this clears some things up, though I feel like you really just wanted to insult me.
Wil we love your show, it brings us tremendous smiles and has reminded this 40 year old of the importance of sitting around the table with my family to have fun. Thank you for the explanation and may I humbly suggest you check that “give-a-fuck drawer”!! (I pray it is empty for the few ignorant folks intent on playing your last nerve like a fiddle while drinking spicey dick-milk)
Cheers and thank you for all the hard work you folks at geek and sundry and at tabletop do to keep us smiling!
With Respect 🙂
Mac.
If I wanted to insult you, I could have said many harsher things.
This whole post was a mistake and you don’t seem to think it is. Instead, you are blaming everyone else for reacting negatively to your poor way of handling this whole petty issue.
You edit the show heavily and have never avoided that fact. You share outtakes and behind the scenes moments frequently. Don’t try to tell us that YOU can’t be bothered to correct another player on the rules and edit things to run more smoothly in the final cut, because that’s exactly what you do anyways.
Being the face of the show and delegating work still means the responsibility lies with you and it’s especially your fault that you chose to make this post and publicly shame an employee whom you chose. An employee whom you seemed to have understood was not fully able to do the work.. You could have just admitted that there were problems with production, in relation to consistently getting the rules right, but you decided to be a dick instead.
Needless to say, my opinion of you is considerably lower for it.
You really need guys like Tom Vasel and Eric Summorer from the Dice Tower and the dudes from the Secret Cabal Gaming Podcast to be on the show, they play tonnes of games and are super entertaining.
ahh ok that explains a lot. I know sometimes you make choices to change things so they present better on camera. I just assumed you were getting bit heavy handed with the let’s just make sure it looks good aspect. This actually makes more sense. It is a shame because I /do/ use Tabletop as a primer for learning the rules. Still Hope you get a new season and are able to prevent such mistakes from becoming centralized again.
Wil, I really enjoy watching Tabletop. And im not even playing tabletop games (well, except for Poker, now and then). So I did not notice a decrease in quality (over the time i have watched all episodes, including the extended, the after dark and the kids episodes), season three is still entertaining for me.
Your rage about this issue is fully understandable. You produce a show about something you really care about so you want the result to reflect that.
When you feel obliged to apologise for the “rule butchering” you should do so. But i dont think that it was necessary to point on someone (more or less) specific. IMHO a boss allway stands in front of his staff. There he earns the credits for good work (which often bugs some of the staff). But a good boss will still stand in front, when the shit hits the fan. In my view, it is an internal affair, when there is someone specific, who messed it up.
I hope you’ll make another season. I really look forward to watching them and I have found each episode entertaining.
Wil, there is one thing you need to understand about managing people and communicating about failure. The message that goes to the outside world is “I screwed up”. Or – better – “I screwed up, but I’ve identified what went wrong and it will not happen again”. The person managing a project is the person responsible for screwups. You choose your people, you manage them – assign them jobs, oversee them and so on. If somebody you are managing screws up – it is your responsibility from the point of view of everybody outside your team. You can chastise them, you can fire them – whatever – but internally, not publicly. We don’t really care, whether it was because the dog ate your rules or producer didn’t spot some mistakes.
BTW, I’m pretty sure that most people don’t really care. Personally I don’t watch Tabletop for the rules, but for everything else that goes on the screen. If I want rules analysis and review, I go to Marco Wargamer channel…
Hola Ser Wil Wheaton of the Golden Shores,
Your appeal to accuracy and reliance on someone with whom, that was their priority to achieve. Is commendable. You are correct in the assertion that people watch these videos not only for their base entertainment value of you and some nerd celebrities playing games. But truly for their purpose of learning how to play the game in question.
My friends and I have on more than one occasion over the last 3 seasons watched a video of some game or another to learn the rules. It’s often truly invaluable for the experience, and set’s the camaraderie bar quite high.
So in that situation, it’s greatly appreciated when you let us know, of not one, or two, or four frak up’s. Or play it off like it doesn’t matter, or the rules as presented by the designer’s aren’t important.
Was your openly honest and direct post a bit much? Maybe to a troll just looking to score points. If they’ve not watched every episode you’ve put out, they maybe wouldn’t realize how genuine you take your job as host, and facilitator of “Play More Games!”
You have to shrug off those naysayers. Trolls will troll, and look to score easy points. One other thing. This is YOUR blog. If people don’t want to be offended by your frustration with a true lack of professionalism by an employee towards the effects it would have on many livelihoods. That’s their burden.
I’m not a fanboy. I disagree with you on some subjects. But nothing you’ve done in this post is worthy of any real criticism. Sure anyone could easily come up with a more diplomatic message than what you wrote. That’s not hard. That’s also not a knock.
What a lot of people forget at times. Is that we as humans need to express our thoughts and opinions at times that may not be “Polite” (upper crusty voice). You felt your emotions, you experienced them. You wrote them down and unburdened yourself of your current baggage.
Thanks for letting us know, explicitly that you care about this “Show”. Tabletop and Titan’s Grave – Ashes of Valkana™ are on my weekly watch list. I’ve not missed an episode yet, because they’re at their heart about having fun and playing more games.
Thanks Wil. Sorry that someone close to you let down a lot of people and perhaps scuffed the Tabletop Public Image a little bit. But it’ll be forgotten and whatever lessons to be learned shall be applied.
Will