While I was at GenCon meeting with game publishers, I learned that a longtime friend who I completely trusted to be a liaison between me (and Tabletop) and game publishers was abusing and betraying that trust in the worst way. Among several profoundly upsetting revelations, I learned that our submission criteria was not being clearly communicated to designers and publishers. This isn’t fair to anyone who has a game they think would work on the show, and is personally upsetting to me, because I probably missed more than a few potentially awesome games.
I have taken significant steps to ensure that the problems we experienced in season three as a result of that betrayal will never happen again. As we get ready to select games for next season, I want to ensure that everyone knows how we choose games to play, so nobody’s time, money, or resources are wasted.
So what follows is a copy of the email we are sending to all the publishers we met. It is also published on geekandsundry.com, where anyone can view it. It’s also here, because I want to make sure that everyone who needs or wants to see this can see it.
To the Publishers:
At GenCon this year, after meeting with dozens of game publishers, it became clear to us that our submissions process for TableTop was broken. The first step toward repairing this process is better direct communication between us at TableTop and the publishers we hope to work with. Rather than rely on a single person to communicate our submission criteria, we are publishing it online and in email, so everyone has access to the same information.
The following criteria will help you determine which of your games are most likely to be played on TableTop:
- Your game must be available at retail outlets when its episode of TableTop airs. We will not consider games that are in development, in stages of crowd funding, or otherwise not available for gamers to purchase and play.
- We have 4 players on each episode of TableTop, so your game should work best with 4 players. This does not mean that it can be played by only 4 players, but it should really shine with 4 players. A good example is Bang!, which technically works with 4 players, but is at its best with 7 or more. As much as we love Bang!, it just won’t work on Tabletop.
- Games can not require simultaneous play, or need to be played in real time. Games like Escape: The Curse of the Temple or Jungle Speed are super fun, but the simultaneous play makes them impossible to film and edit.
- Your game should have a strong, good balance of strategy and luck. We want everyone who plays to feel invested throughout the episode. Skewing too far in one direction or the other may leave some players out.
- Your game should look good and be produced on quality materials. TableTop is a visual show, after all, and we need the games we feature to look awesome.
- Games need to be playable in about 90 minutes to fit into our production schedule, and to allow us edit the final cut to about 35 minutes. Longer games are occasionally okay for two part episodes, but those are rare exceptions.
- For season 4, we’re very interested in seeing and playing games that are accessible to families. We’ve seen that a huge portion of the TableTop audience is made up of families who watch together, and we want to play some games this coming season that they’ll love to play together. This does not mean that we’re looking for children’s games. Rather, we are looking for games that can be played by a wide range of ages. For example, Catan Jr. is a game you can play with your kids that is not a kid’s game. Smash Up is probably a little complex for a 7 year-old, but a 10 year-old shouldn’t have any trouble with it. Both of those games can be fun for adults to play with or without their kids.
We want you to know that games fitting all these criteria are the most likely to end up on the show. We anticipate over 200 submissions this season, from which 18-20 will be selected for TableTop, so a game that fits all 6 of these criteria will probably edge out one that fits only 4. However, if your game doesn’t fit all of these rules, but fits most of them, we’d still love to see it. If your game breaks one of these rules in a spectacular and interesting way, we’d also love to see it. Please let us know in your submission if this is the case, which criteria you did not align with, and why you think we’ll love it. Please note, Rule 1 is non-negotiable.
Rather than send product, we’d like to save you time and money. Please submit information about your game to Ryan Copple & Claudia Sanchez at tabletopsubmissions [at] geekandsundry dot com. We’ll need to know the title and designer of your game, the core mechanics, playing time, target age, and when it will be available in stores. You may include marketing materials if you think they will be helpful for us.
We will compile a list from these e-mail submissions and reach out to those of you who have games we believe could be a good match for our show. At that time, we’ll ask you to send those games to the Geek & Sundry offices, directed to Ryan & Claudia’s attention. We are asking for a minimum of 2 copies of your game. One copy will go to Wil Wheaton, to play with his family and his game group. One copy will be played by the offices of Geek & Sundry. Going forward we do not require more than 2 copies of a game in order to consider that game for Tabletop. If you are able to send a 3rd copy it may help us ensure as many people as possible can play the games, but 2 will be enough for consideration.
I’m going to recommend a game that doesn’t fit your rules AT ALL: XCOM: The board game. You can’t show it in Tabletop but if you, personally, like cooperatives, you’ll love this one. They made some interesting design choices to avoid the “leader effect” that other cooperative games suffer, in XCOM every player is too busy doing their own stuff to boss others around. Turns are timed (and computer controlled, a smartphone is enough), you still need to make choices together with the other players but you won’t be able to tell them what to do about their responsibilities in the game, you have to come to agreements with them fast. The game is very intense and fast paced and if you haven’t played it yet, please do, you won’t regret it 🙂
I would second this. It’s turn based and fairly easy to play. While it does take a laptop, it just to track some details instead of looking up what phase you’re on. Its screen need not be shown. The timing aspect can be adjusted. And each role is completely different.
Viticulture would also be cool. It’s a work placement game where people compete to make wine. I didn’t think I’d be interested, but it was quite clever.
Thank you for doing what you and your team do Wil, we really appreciate it.
A friend of ours recently published ‘redacted’ Which is a spy on spy scenario game Which may really work for the show.
https://youtu.be/5mWvRDsScmQ
Alternatively do you think tragedy looper might be too complex?
Hi Wil! Since you are reading some suggestions, as a big fan of Tabletop, there is one game I believe would allow the most mind-blowingly awesome episode ever conceived: Space Cadets Dice Duel. It would be glorious to watch the Wheatons vs. another team, that could be a G&S group, the Days, or some other Star Trek celebrity and his/her family, engaging in the ultimate mayhem that is this spaceship battle. Watch this video to get the idea and please please make it happen! https://youtu.be/7NUjDhrkhY0
Dice Duel is awesome, but it doesn’t fit the criteria – it requires simultaneous play. It would be cool if there were some other scenario in which we could see Wil captaining a team in dice-on-dice combat action, but I don’t think Tabletop is it.
Can’t wait for season 4! Actually slightly disappointed at the lack of crowd funding – I like the freebies (well, their not free, but you get me).
Don’t know if Mantic have made their way to the US yet, but they have an awesome little miniatures game called ‘Dreadball’. Usually 2 player, but they also produce multi-player boards and rules.
It’s like a cross between rugby and basketball, with weapons – a quicker and simpler to learn version of Bloodbowl. Lots of fun, and opportunities for banter!
Dice based though, so apologies Wil….
There’s nothing here against crowdfunded games – they just have to have completed their crowdfunding rounds, been sent out to backers, and actually be available for non-backers to buy in stores. Whether or not they started out on Kickstarter is irrelevant to eligibility.
Yeah, for example, Tsuro of the Seas was crowdfunded, but it was published and available by the time we played it on the show.
If I can suggest a game, I would suggest Jackpot! by Joyride Games, currently available and produced by a friend of mine. Will message him as well to email you.
Mad props for being upfront about this – betrayal like that is difficult to talk about, especially when it affects part of your business. The fact that you’re honest and upfront about things like this is one of the many reasons why I respect both you and your work. Keep it up!
I trust you will see to it that the OWLBEAR exacts appropriate justice on said betrayer (may he fail all saving throws henceforth).
(Wil – “I don’t get mad – but the Owlbear… well, I can’t promise anything, can I? You’d better start running…”)
On a separate note: dude, you should TOTALLY do another episode with kids!
Let me leave you with this picture:
My 6 year old daughter and 9 year old son watching the Catan Jr. episode with their cousins (7 and 10), laughing their butts off (esp. at the part where the screen goes black and white because of the captured parrots), and then running upstairs to play Catan Jr. when finished – and then playing it again and again for almost 2 hours.
You were also great with the kids on the show, one of my all-time favs.
I don’t think I’ve ever posted here before but I felt the need to commiserate.
You are so very sincere that I feel for you. What a dick move and I hope you know that everyone stands by you, Wil!
I remember you saying in an episode of Not the Flog and in the Legendary episode, deck-building games wouldn’t work on Tabletop. I don’t see that on the criteria here, so did that change? And why exactly wouldn’t deck-building games work on Tabletop anyway?
Most of what makes deck building games fun happens in our heads, while we’re looking at our cards in our hands, thinking about what we’re going to draft on our next turn, and thinking about how we are going to adjust when the card we were going to pull is suddenly unavailable.
Legendary worked because it was cooperative, and that gave us lots of opportunity to talk with each other and stay engaged with each other. I’m not fundamentally opposed to deck builders, and I’ll consider ones that intrigue me, but as a general rule, they aren’t as good for our format as other styles.
If you haven’t done this already Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game is really the bee’s knees for comic nerds. It models how the heros work (and work together) amazingly well, while still being a very fun (almost) purely coop game.
Having played both Legendary: Marvel and Sentinels of the Multiverse,I think the latter is going to be easier for an audience to follow.
Would you consider a separate set or minor sets of TableTop for Two, where you review and play games specifically made for two players? Sort of like the TableTop After Dark thingy with Cards Against Humanity which probably wasn’t what you Americans call “Family Friendly” but nonetheless was recorded and published.
My girlfriend and I would love to play more games – well…I mean more BOARD games and need some inspiration about which two-player games out there are worth our while.
We can’t be the only ones – for instance parents with smaller children that would like an opportunity to play a game once in a while without having to cast the Summon Friends spell.
I have tried to figure out a way to feature two player games, but it doesn’t work. What you get is two people sitting together, quietly pondering their next move while the other takes their turn.
I’ve done some stuff on Not The Flog about two player games, though, and I’m pretty sure I’ve written here once or twice about some two player games I love to play.
Thanks for the reply.
I can see your point as the scenario perfectly describes the games my gf and I play. Not exactly entertaining, suspense-filled TV.
Talking while playing would probably seem artificial.
It’s too bad because I suspect there probably is an untapped audience out there, waiting with bated breath something like this.
I think Spellslingers does about as good a job as you can do making a 2-player game fun to watch. It makes extensive use of asides and lower-thirds to explain things to the viewer. It’s a totally different feel from Tabletop, though. They spend more time explaining what is happening and dramatizing it than showing the game being played. I suspect that formula only works in a 30-minute show for something as well-known as Magic. For it to work on Tabletop, you’d have to change the style of the show a lot — probably too much. To me, Spellslingers is more about the entertaining people playing an established game than it is about the game itself.
Will the first part of this made me sad to hear. I hope that while this may have dissolved a business relationship that a friendship wasn’t also ruined. Regardless I know how hard it can be to do business with friends, while it may have damaged the friendship, clear and honest communication can sometimes save it.
I hope that Lost Legacy (made by the same people that did Love Letter) makes an appearance. The fact that every expansion is a brand new deck with the same core mechanics makes the game huge in replayability, especially when you combine cards from the other decks to make all new creations.
Could any dexterity games work on Tabletop?
Maybe. If anything, it would be a good excuse for me to justify the price of PitchCar!
Sorry to hear about the recent troubles. I think we can all understand why that would be upsetting. Glad you are trying to not let it ruin this wonderful thing you’ve created that so many people enjoy. Tabletop introduced me to gaming and in turn introduced me to new friends who share a similar love of games.
All the best to you and everyone true to Tabletop.
Ps Evolution seems like a really cool game that meets your criteria. Fun and family friendly with an interesting concept.
It’s great to read that you got your motivation back after the incident in June. I’m really looking forward to season 4 (although I haven’t gotten around to watch all of season 3 yet, shame on me).
There are many games I love that I’d like to see on TableTop, most of them don’t work on the show, though. The only one of those that might work is Space Hulk: Death Angel (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/71721/space-hulk-death-angel-card-game).
I think I suggested it for last season as well. It’s fun (what’s not to love about a bunch of guys in an armor suit blasting through hordes of aliens?), it cooperative, it’s both high luck and high strategy (or rather high tactics) and the artwork is great. So it might actually work.
There are a few downsides that could rule it out, though: It has player elimination and I never played it with 4 players, so I have no idea how well it plays in that case. The playing time can vary a lot, if things go really bad, the game might be over after five minutes, but if things go semi-well, it may take one hour. Also it involves dice rolling and if you mess up your roll, people die.
I’d love to see Kingsburg and Mission: Red Planet on the show. You should also have Tom Vasel from The Dice Tower on as a guest.
No recommendations here, but just wanted to commend you for rising above the behaviour of others in order to move forward in the most positive manner possible. Transparency is the best way to remove negative impressions, and Season 4 can’t help but benefit from this.
Season 3 has been awesome for many reasons. Game nights with my nieces (26, 24, 23 and 17) and all their friends & family have become a preferred way to spend a night together. Additionally, my best friend runs a toy store and reports that board game sales are far and away the biggest increase in her sales, and she can directly attribute it to TableTop viewings and ‘tutorials’.
Thanks to everyone on the team for all the hard work and time involved.
Super Dungeon Explore: The Forgotten King
Welcome to the Dungeon
The Phantom Society
Hey Wil – Love the show!
I think these games could work for season 4.
Survive: Escape from Atlantis
Black Fleet (neat pirate theme! pick up and deliver style, with take that built in)
Mission: Red Planet
Steampunk Rally
Spyfall
Loop Inc
Machi Koro: Deluxe edition
Looking forward to next season!
Kris
Ontario, Canada
PS: It’d be cool to see Tom Vasel from Dice Tower as a guest on the show.
I’m not sure what the legalities of doing so would be, but what about older games that may or may not be out of print? There were some interesting games in the 80s/90s that I’m still trying to reacquire on eBay that might make for interesting Tabletop episodes. I’d name a few, but most of the ones I know wouldn’t make for interesting episodes, or wouldn’t quite fit the format of the series.
Hi Wil. Love the show. I would really love to see you guys play Hanabi (Antoine Bauza). The game is always a hit, even when I play it with non-gamers, and plus seeing your incredible discomfort when someone is going to play the wrong card/tile and you’re trying not to give it away would just be too funny to miss. If you do actually pick this game, you should highlight the fact that it comes in an inexpensive card form as well as a deluxe tile form (a la Mah-jongg). Keep up the great work!
Hey Will,
I know you just did a co-op deck builder and may not want to do another one right away, but I wanted to recommend XenoShyft Onslaught from CMON, if you haven’t already checked it out. It has some mechanical innovations that I think make it even MORE suited to Tabletop than Legendary was. First, cards are drafted directly into your hand, not your discard pile. This really opens up the planning discussion among the players during the drafting phase of a turn, as players are making most of their drafting decisions around their immediate needs to survive the current turn. Second, the game is about straight up survival. The players are defending a base with a set number of hit points, and the only goal is to survive through nine rounds and have at least 1 hit point remaining after the ninth round. This leads to an intense build up of tension, especially in the last few rounds as that hit point counter creeps ever downwards. Finally, this game has a small but brilliant mechanical innovation that I think would really shine on Tabletop. As you would expect, only the active player may deploy troops to the front line of the battle, However, ALL players may play their support cards as buffs on the active players troops during the battle. Any card played in this way is then absorbed into the active players deck. As most of the battles come down to that razor’s edge between victory and defeat, this allows for some of those great ah-ha gaming moments when one of the non-active players gets to be the hero by playing the critical card at the critical moment that just tips the scales to victory. This also keeps all players engaged during every player’s turn, as everyone has at least the possibility of being able to contribute to every battle. The theme certainly isn’t as strong as Marvel superheroes, but its pretty decent. Its obviously very Aliens inspired pitting corporate space marines against HR Gigeresque monsters as they defend a resource gathering base long enough for it to strip mine a planet of every last but of some impossible to pronounce super valuable ore. The rule book even has some nice touches in keeping with the amoral sci-fi mega corp theme, advising players to think of their soldiers as valuable company resources whose “expenditure” should always be carefully weighed against the bottom line. Anyway, if you do consider another co-op deck builder, I think this one would be well suited for Tabletop.
Also wanted to say, absolutely love the show and keep it going as long as possible. I had been out of gaming for many years and Tabletop has been instrumental in bringing me and my family back into it. I cut my gaming teeth on the behemoth Ameritrash designs of yesteryore (Fortress America, Samurai Swords etc.) and then progressed to the dense, heavy Avalon Hill titles (Advanced Civilization, Squad Leader etc.) After I grew up, started a career, family etc, gaming left my life for a number of years. I still maintained some vague interest, but didn’t do much beyond trying and failing to get my wife to play a few of my old games. As much as I’m embarrassed to admit it now, I saw anything lighter than what I mentioned above as beneath me, so I wasn’t willing to give any of the more modern family weight designs a second look, and with my kids still very young, I was resigned to having to wait many years to get a shot at playing some of those games. Then I saw your show, and saw how much fun everyone was having, and how much depth there really was to those games, even with the accessible design. My kids watched a few of the more kid friendly episodes and were super excited and wanted to play. I ordered a few and we haven’t looked back. My son, who will be 8 next month, is extremely proud of himself that he is able to play Stone Age, despite the fact that the box clearly says 13+. My daughter, who is 4, is also able to play things way beyond her age. Her favorite is Carcossone. My wife, who is a huge Indiana Jones fan, watched about 30 seconds of the Fortune and Glory episode and told me to immediately go and order it. Big thank you to you and your whole team for bringing gaming back into my family.
Can you give details on dates? Last submission date? Roughly when Season 4 will air?
I am in the final stages of game design and don’t know if I should submit of not depending on your air date.
PS. My son loves you show and it has cost me quite a large sum of money because he wants every game you play!!!
We don’t have those specifics, yet. I suggest contacting G&S and staying in communication with Ryan and/or Claudia.
Hey Wil
Not sure if this game fits the criteria since i’ve never gotten the chance to play it.1313 dead end drive.
Just throwing that one into the ring.Keep up the great show and work
Wil! My wife and I are really enjoying catching up on TableTop. Your game introductions are now our preferred way of learning a game. You explain very well! We’d love to see you play one of our favorite games – Alien Frontiers.
Pandemic Legacy … must be played on tabletop – it would have to be a miniseries – but it would be well worth it !!
Flash Point: Fire Rescue
Isn’t that a great game? I haven’t won it a single time (last time we all died when the house blew up), but I just love it. It’s definitely getting tested for next season.