McCarthy would be so proud

Metafilter was the first to share this story from the democratic underground. It seems that Bush was speaking at Ohio State University’s graduation. The students were told that they were expected to provide a “thunderous” ovation and if they disrupted the ceremonies in any way, they’d be arrested.
That’s right. At a public college, the students would be arrested and expelled if they expressed their unhappiness with George W. Bush.
One student, who exercised his constitutionally-protected 1st amendment right of free speech, and turned his back on Bush tells his story here.
Let’s get something straight, because I’m really tired of being told to “move to Afghanistan” because I’m “anti-American”: If we allow the Bush Administration to goose-step all over our civil rights, and we sit back quietly while Ashcroft dances all over the constitution, we no longer have a country worth fighting for.
Things like this transcend political ideology, IMHO. It doesn’t matter if it’s the Democrats or the Republicans who are currently in charge.
The thing that is so amazing about the USA is that I can (as of June 15, 2002) stand here, and loudly proclaim, “I DO NOT SUPPORT GEORGE W. BUSH, OR HIS POLICIES!!,” without fear of reprisal. When graduating students are subject to ARREST for an action like turning their backs on a person who they don’t respect, we have a very serious problem.
I hope that everyone can take off their various political mantles for a moment, and see this for what it is: the unconstitutional silencing of dissidents.
McCarthy would be so proud.

228 thoughts on “McCarthy would be so proud”

  1. After reading the comments from this board (from both sides) I’m now even more convinced that we’re screwed no matter what. I for one have set aside a nice lawn chair next to a cooler with some Coronas in it so I’ll have a good seat when the world ends. I just hope my eyeballs don’t melt before I get to see that annoying dog of one of my neighbors explode. That would almost be worth it.
    I dunno about the rest of you, but that tree we came down from 6 million years ago is starting to look pretty good right about now. Well, if you belive there was a tree 6 million years ago.
    Damn, can’t even get that one straight, can we? Oh well, light ‘em if you got ‘em.

  2. Okay Lurch. I’ve reread your posts. I don’t see endless pages of how swell western society is. I see a lot of discontent and scorn. You accuse me again of taking your “I hate Western Culture and its greed” direct quote out of context. You did not say “I hate Greed.” You made that statement, it got my attention, I called you on it. Now show me where it’s out of context with the rest of that post.
    Moving on…
    Oh dear. America would be a third world country if it weren’t for the money owed to us by Angola. Now lads, get out your pencils, and lets write out some numbers. The US GDP is about 7-8 trillion dollars annually. That’s $7,000,000,000,000. Find out what the third world debt to the US is. A few hundred million? Ten billion? I really don’t know, and I KNOW you don’t know because when you subrtract that number, total, from what we produce in one year I will be astonished if it equals 1/2 of 1% of our ANNUAL GDP. To me that makes your statement about us being a third world country without what the 3rd World owes us about 99.5% incorrect. Hey, let’s be generous and round it up to 100% Defend that ridiculous statement with some numbers and we can objectively triangulate on how silly that statement really is.
    Should we forgive the debt? I think we should. As I say, it’s a fairly trivial amount. Will this solve the problem? Show me how it will. We (the West) lent them money for growth and construction. Their corrupt governments squandered the money. Okay. So it’s gone. Should we lend them more money? Are you out of your mind? This isn’t cause I don’t want to spend the money. It’s because I don’t want to waste the money, again, on buying these Presidents-for-life more Mercedes Benzs and 8 lane wide highways that go for 2.6 miles and dead end in the middle of nowhere. I would be VERY interested in loaning individuals money to open small businesses, but their filthy governments, NOT OURS, would take that and besides, why own anything when even the police are a pack of theives.
    What odd sort of self-hatred possesses you to constantly blame your own culture, regardless of overwhelming evidence that these problems in the third world are self-generated and self perpetuating. Do you really have such a low opinion of these poor suffering people that you think they are somehow incapable of doing anything right? They are being crippled not by the fact that people lent them money, but by the fact that their own ‘leaders’ have stolen that money, are stealing more money, and will continue to steal whatever money we continue to send them. So make a suggestion, Lurch. Like Ross Perot said, I’m all ears.
    “Judgement and Punishment” for those that committed the 9/11 crimes. Noble sentiment. How do you plan to accomplish that? Perhaps we could post flyers in Kabul urging them to turn themselves in. This is where that little CLICK in your brain seems go off. Yes, by all means punishment and justice. But no violence! Perhaps a strong public reprimand, or a series of quite firmly worded letters will make them realize the errors of their ways and they will report to the nearest US embassy for hanging. Just out of sheer curiousity, Lurch…how many people will they have to kill — wait, since Americans aren’t worth anything more than a little moral indignation to you — how many of your family have to be killed before you decide to do something about it?
    So I’m a man bent on killing anything that gets in his way? Okay. I see it more as someone bent on killing anyone who sneaks into the house at night and starts murdering my family, but have it your way. I’d rather be known as that person than the one who made a nice cup of tea for the bastard while he slits your kids throats.
    Okay Fluffy, your turn.
    1. Uncle Sam came late to the war on terror. If we really cared we should have done something earlier. Like what? Invade Northern Ireland when a pipe bomb goes off outside Harrod’s? What would you have liked us to do, Fluff. You keep moving the target. Be specific. What would you have liked us to do? And if Al Qaeda flies a jet into Parliament, what would you like us to do then? Push for a UN Resolution?
    And tell me again why we should have acted BEFORE 9/11 but now that we’re acting afterwards we’re bullies. That reasoning seems…well…a little backward. Although I must admit that after hearing you and Lurch I am getting used to it.
    You state that in place of military action we should be “solving the problems and causes of terrorism, not blow them up.” Splendid. What did you have in mind? Perhaps a series of instructional videos. Fluffy, I fall back on sarcasm because in the face of such an arguement reason simply fails me. This is like watching your house on fire and discussing what types of non-flammable materials we should use for the drapes.
    You might want to take a read about the difference between cooperative versus power-based societies. Negotiation and reason and not highly regarded among those people. They are considered a sign of weakness. You do not have to take my word for it. Simply listen to what Osama says from his own mouth. He recruited many people because he said he could attack the West and that we are too weak and cowardly to do anything about it. Okay. So. 9/11. The US moves into Afghanistan. Tens of thousands of Pakistani’s cross the border for the Jihad to kill Americans. But those fierce, implacable muhajedin don’t come charging with flashing scimitars. Met with professional soldiers they ran like rabbits. Many of the Pakistani and other Taliban supporters are blown to bits. They not only didn’t get a chance to kill an American, they didn’t even get a chance to SEE an American. Just some contrails and a very loud sound indeed.
    So. Does the Arab world rise as one in righteous fury? No. They go home, grumbling that OBL wasn’t really Saladin after all. The Pakistani’s say that those Mullahs in the Madrasses lied to them about glorious victory in the Army of God. They were met by overwhelmingly superior power, and they shut up.
    Here, let me type it for you Fluff, I can see the veins in your head starting to throb: THEY REGROUPED TO FIGHT AGAIN, ONLY NOW THERE ARE MORE OF THEM AND THEY ARE EVEN ANGRIER!
    I doubt it. I think Bin Laden is paste in some unmarked grave. Whether he is or not, we know that many of his lieutenants are. What used to look like easy pickings for your average Al Qaeda now looks like a pretty sure death sentence.
    Sure there’s a lot of them left. Sure they’re going to do more damage. Do you honestly think that Bin Laden’s master plan was to attack the US so that he and his minions could be routed from the country they stole, then be blown up huddling in caves and shot by their own Afghan flunkies? I rather doubt it. He thought we’d hurl a few cruise missiles, and then, flush with success, he could extend the taliban regime into all of Central Asia and re-ignite a worldwide Muslim Califate with him as the leader, the Great Slayer of Americans.
    So again, stop hiding behind generalities and speculations and you tell me SPECIFICALLY what you would have done so we can argue in at least a remotely level playing field. Of course, we’ll be dealing with your personal opinions, if not fantasies, but at least that’s something that can be responded to.
    You say that you don’t want to take away choice, that McDonalds is doing it for you. Interesting argument. The only flaw that I can see is that no one took away your choice but you. If people had preferred Mom and Pop burgers then they’d be there on the patio cheering as McDonalds packed up and went home, out of business. You concede the fact that people vote with their feet. You just don’t think they should be allowed to, apparently. So let me make sure I understand your argument correctly. McDonalds should be banned because if they are not, people will chose McDonalds and put local hamburger stands out of business. Did I miss something? It seems to me that by following that path to it’s logical conclusion, well-made clothes should be banned because they take away from Frau Niedelkoph’s haberdashery sales. Solid steel tools can not be allowed…it will be bad for the neighborhood smithy. And certainly no professional theatres, for that will be the certain death of Hector Grabanzo and his all-gypsy musical adaptation of “To Kill A Mockingbird.”
    That’s quite a success strategy you have Fluff. I’m sure it will bring all of the prosperity and happiness we have come to expect from such a North Korean economic model. They don’t have McDonalds either, those lucky, lucky bastards.
    Hey, speaking of Dear Leader, let’s not forget who exports more ballistic missiles than anyone on Earth — even us! That’s why a National MISSILE defense is a rather fine idea. Because, hey…pull the trigger on one of those and all the Customs inspectors in Miami are going to you you a speck of good. I’m sure that when Italians become terrorists we will need a National Suitcase Defense. And besides, a strike with a suitcase bomb is neither here nor there. The missile threat is real, and it is expanding. Now you may ask, intelligent liberal European that you are, ‘Why would Dear Leader or Saddam do something like launch a nuclear missile attack on the US?”
    I don’t know, but I DO know that we must defend against enemey CAPABILITIES rather than wishful hoping about INTENTIONS. Why do they starve their people to death? Why did Hitler order tens of thousands of Berliners to be drowned in the final hours of WWII by flooding the underground stations to slow the Soviets? (Thankfully countermanded by brave German Genrals) Why don’t they give a damn about anything than their own personal survival?
    I’m guessing here…could it be that they are FUCKING PSYCHOPATHS? Could be. But you think they should have nuclear weapons. Okay, let’s talk about the use of nuclear weapons.
    I DEFY you to show credible corraborating evidence of a formal Japanese surrender prior to the dropping of the second atomic bomb. Yes, it’s a very pleasant thought seeing as how it makes the American’s even more murderous. I DARE you to prove it. Hey, and what about all of that Scottish Volunteer regiment of SS guards who refused orders from the Germans to let the last of the Jews go and instead napalmed 200,000 of them in that pit somewhere? It’s all over the web. And what about the photos of the Scottish World Cup team sacrificing babies and eating raw human hearts? (It didn’t help) Hey, I hear that Churchill secretly gave Rudolh Hess a blowjob in exchange for his help in bombing Dresden and killing a few hundred thousand for fun. I saw that in an article somewhere.
    We dropped two atomic bombs to prove a point to the Russians, who we’d just hugged and kissed after the fall of Berlin? I want some evidence of that slander, too.
    Do you build a worldview out of this crap? Seriously?

  3. Sorry Fluffy, but I believe you have your history wrong. The Japanese were in the process of surrendering before the second bomb, but not the first. The USA never intended to not drop the second bomb, it was not a statement to Russia or really anyone else, it was as it was, a 1-2 punch, proof that we had more than one lucky punch. The surrender, Japanese version was dated before the second bomb, the translation, after. No more, no less. That, I fear, is only politics, we would never have accepted a surrender in Japanese…. No surrender is ever done in a single day, even had the emperor managed to get the word to us in time, there might have been doubt in others in the world that that was the one and only bomb, thus the presidential order was to drop both from the start. There have been all kinds of theories behind the dates of the surrender, including the idea that the translator deliberately delayed the translation because he/she was “in on it”. I doubt it. The dates are common knowledge, but I don’t think there is anything there other than normal delays involving a large political power surrendering. A battle is easy to surrender from, one guy waves his flag and everything stops (at least in the movies — in real life it’ll take an hour or more to settle everyone down from the bloodlust). In a war, even if the leader surrenders, it takes time to get the word out to both sides. That is just the way it is, sad, but true.

  4. not that i like bush, or don’t like clinton. but clinton was the speaker at my college graduation. the protesters were herded to a roped off “designated area” about 3 blocks away from clinton and the graduation ceremony.
    there was no 1st amendment violation there, there is none here.

  5. Proteus:
    There is a certain pointlessness to these debates. We do live in different countries. We do have different world views. I find it difficult to get my point across without reverting to scripture and religious thinking which although central to my world-view I know is laughable to many other people so I try and avoid it an yet at the same time not to avoid it.
    As for your statement about my hatred of western culture, I suppose what you say is right I do have PROBLEMS with it, hate was perhaps the wrong word, have a major problem with it and its effects would have been better, perhaps. Next, US = Third World, by official rules Third world countries CANNOT support themselves without import and aid etc etc. The Us cannot support its food and living supplies without major imports from other countries, hence without your immense (and frankly unearned) power you are a third world country with a second rate education system which seems to fail that largest population centres of the poor that fill your inner cities (as they do in ours as well).
    As for the debt the following is taken from the Comic relief – Drop the Debt web site:
    “All countries owe money to someone. But it is fifty two of the world’s poorest countries, most of which are in Africa, who owe the rich world around

  6. As an Ohio State alumnus, I’m afraid I’ve got to speak up here and debunk this article and ‘AngryWhiteDemocrat’ — because he/she/it is lying.
    First of all, a full year’s tuition for this coming school year is about $5500 for the Columbus campus. Admittedly, that’s for an in-state Ohio resident; however, nonresident tuition is $15,000. How does this add up to $80,000, particularly when something like ninety percent of OSU students have in-state waivers — and four years ago, when I was a senior and this person was a freshman, OSU yearly tuition in-state was $3300? This should be your first clue that whomever this is is pretty much making things up by the seat of his/her/its pants.
    Admittedly, that’s the only thing I can prove with actual numbers as being a little off, but I went to infinite numbers of events in my time there and YES, the organizers in charge — IE, the university personnel — said that anyone disrupting the event would be asked to leave. They said this every time for EVERY speaker from Newt Gingrich to Dave Thomas to Mick Jagger to Bill Clinton to Jesse Jackson, and this is their right as organizers of a public event. Protesters OUTSIDE the venues were never so much as looked at funny as long as they weren’t dangerously blocking traffic; I know this, because I was frequently one of them.
    OSU is an enormous school. Enormous. The main campus alone (ie, the oldest buildings around the oval, the original part of the school) is a three mile diagonal, and the population expands accordingly: enrollment is nearing 50,000 full-time students and nearly 7,000 graduated this past spring — that class number alone is larger than the total enrollment of many private schools. If you consider an average of at least two visitors for those seven thousand graduates, you’re up to twenty-one thousand people in the Horseshoe: a football stadium.
    And here we come to my last bit of total disbelief: the Jesse Owens Memorial Park in front of the Shoe that AngryWhiteDemocrat insists that the graduates were gathered in to hear the ‘do something nasty, we’ll expell you and arrest you’ speech? It’s got two park benches and a statue. It’s about eight feet square. And seven thousand people were fit in there how?
    Someone is trying to cause trouble and/or get attention, and it’s a load of crock. Please don’t jump on everything you read just because of paranoia.

  7. Lurch, I was about to suggest the same thing. You state that $355 billion is owed to western nations, US, UK Japan, etc. I again say that by your own number the total debt owed to the US is something like 1% of our GDP. For you to claim that the US is a third world country without the money owed by them is clearly, demonstrably false — by your own figures. To say that the US, the world’s largest food exporter, needs to import food to survive is also clearly, demonstrably FACTUALLY false. You claim we know nothing about reasonable force, we just nuke ‘em and ask questions afterwards. I don’t recall any nuke-em response to 911…it seems that would have caught my attention. So again, your basis for argument and world view are based on demonstrably, verifiably, PATENTLY false information. As with our ‘unearned’ wealth and power… Where did it come from Lurch? Can you provide a receipt? No, I thought not. The transparency of your inferiority comlex is the only thing about you and Fluffy that makes factual sense.
    I almost asked “Where do you GET this stuff?” but again, what’s the point? You don’t get it from anywhere. You just make it up because it feels right to you. That’s actually a common way of looking at life. For two year olds.
    So clearly, your worldview is composed of a mishmash of wishful thinking, rumor, and vague dismay. You may as well blame evil fairies as the US for the things you mention, because frankly, the evidence for your opinions is about equally strong. I agree completely about discontinuing the debate. As is often said, there’s no use getting a pig to dance: it merely wastes your time and annoys the pig. You certainly are annoyed and I clearly have wasted enough time.
    Best of luck to you and Fluffy. If at any time reality, respect for the facts and a little less self-loathing enters your consciousness, then so much the better. I have wasted enough time on this 3rd-rate ex-celebrity site and will not be back to read whatever hateful, fact-free thing Fluffy has to say or hear any more of your upside-down perspectives. Consider them hanging in the air.
    Oh, and uh, as for the pole remark, followed by ‘blessings’ — you really are quite the hypocrite, aren’t you?

  8. Uh, this sounds like bullcrap. If it truly did happen, a LOT more would have happened. I wouldn’t even believe this about a democrat.

  9. Wil, I don’t understand your hatred of President Bush, but I do recognize your need to speak out. I disagree with the actions taken at OSU, and believe people do have the right to speak out and protest actions with which they disagree. However, I can recall reading of similar injustices under the Clinton administration. Where was the outcry over those? He kept a tight reign on crowds. At any rate, while I don’t necessarily agree with every policy from the Bush Administration, I happily agree with most of it and support our president 100%. You may choose not to support his policies, but he is still our president, whether or not you voted for him. I disliked Clinton, but he was still my president much to my chagrin.
    What I really don’t understand are those that continue to support former president Clinton, who is a proven liar, deceiver, adulterer, and possibly a thief or even a murderer. Despite all this, people are still apologists for him and his shameful behavior. Why don’t you write some political protests against him? Thank goodness a few sane people such as Rosie O’Donnell are finally beginning to see the light and are thoroughly disgusted with him.
    In short, how about some consistency here?

  10. Oh, diddums….Proty woty no want to talk. Proty woty want to smash…
    Fair enough. If Proteus wants to run and hide instead of debating, thats his business.
    Its just interesting to look back at all those posts and see which if us was hurling insults (European Dole-sponging, Gutless turds for one), and who was continualy trying to defend their viewpoints and conceeding when proven wrong.
    All I wish is that he somehow finds himself a dictionary and learns what hypocrite and slander actually mean.
    And what the ? means. (i did not state that the Japanese were surrendering before the bombs were dropped…I was asking if it was true, trying to get him to go look and think about what he was saying)If my origional thoughs on the Japanese surrender were incorrect, then I stand corrected.
    And, when someone says the get their info from a website, and name the site…when the hell does that translate as “you don’t get it from anywhere, you just make it up”?????
    For the record (I know no-one else really cares, before you all post a bunch of flames at me for this as well as everything else) my worldview comes from my Religious beliefs (NOT the same as Lurches, lets just say we are very differant), my desire to read and learn about the world around me, and my ability to observe and make decisions based upon what I have seen.
    So, Im sorry if we’ve bored you all to tears over the last few days, but we one of the most important things in this world is how other people see it…we can learn a lot from one another, its just that some people don’t want to try.

  11. i see that my previous comment was either skipped or selectively ignored due to its content, so i’ll post it again:
    this sounds suspiciously like what happened back at kutztown university in january 1995. i was a sophomore and we found out one day that bill clinton would be speaking in our field house. the administration bulletin about the event mentioned something to the effect of “protestors will be dealt with accordingly”. i don’t remember the exact wording but i remember being outraged. students were told that they were being given priority to see him speak. so my roommmate and i got in line at 5:30am two days before the speech to get tickets. had to skip my first class because we didn’t actually receive our tickets until 9:30. so at 6:00 am on the morning of the 10:30 speech, we got in line. at 9:30, when the doors opened, students were held at bay while we watched busload after busload of special interest groups being led in first. when they were all inside and seated, approximately 100 students were let inside. needless to say, students were outraged after standing outside in the freezing cold in january in pennsylvania only to be cast aside in favor of less volatile voters. so if you think for a second that this is soley a republican tactic, you’re wrong.

  12. I am a student at Ohio State, and I had many friends graduating this quarter. In my opinion, I’m glad I wasn’t graduating, so I dont have to deal with such bullshit. I hate George Dubya. He is a moron and so was his dad and brother Jeb. I dont even know why OSU wasted their time having such an idiot speak. Just my $.02
    Jen

  13. Hey Wil,
    My professor has a great pin about George W. It says, “Strong as a rock, and just as dumb.” If from this you cannot tell my opinion of the man something is wrong with the world and not just our leadership. I am huge fan, eversince “Stand By Me.” Just had to say that and now back to the issue. The man is faced with horrible issues and is making a decent attempt as a war-time president. However, he cannot handle any domestic issues properly, and hopefully Senator Kerrey shall take this responsibility from him in 2004. We can only hope. Bush continues to hold onto Reagnomics and cowboy politics, both which can ruin this nation. The voters will hopefully recognize these attempts at impeachment of our most personal and constitutional rights. Until then, let us encourage all not to complain, but to write our Senators, and VOTE!!!! That is the power!!!!!

  14. Wil, which of your rights exactly have the Bush admin. trappled on? C’mon… list ‘em for me. In your daily life, have activity have you been kept from performing? Sleeping late? Managing your web site? Are you seeing Govt. Boogy Men in the shadows at twilight? Afraid of getting caught masterbating in your Ben & Jerry’s ice cream?
    I love the left when they start foaming about men in black suits coming for the liberal paranoid – it’s so left coast and trippy cute! It’s also very passe since 9/11.
    Grow up boy. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE that GWB would actually try to arrest those who disagree with his policies. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE the press would let that happen? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE that fair minded American people would allow it? On top of that, you believe some jag-offs on the internet. The same knuckle heads who cut and paste boobies on Consular Troi.
    You can’t begin to understand the mindset of the “McCarthy” era because you have a comic book way of looking at life. You ignore the documented history of communism’s evil and it’s millions of victims world wide. Your pie eyed world view equates the Nazis with those good people who simply disagree with you. You throw names at those who engage in the arena of new ideas while typing out outdated morals and ideas on this silly site.
    Worst, you tread on a dimming celebrity and still refuse to simply grow up. I heard about this site from friends in Dallas – and we’re laughing at you. Your comedy career is at hand! Comedy uber goofy.

  15. CJ, was there any actually reason to your post other than to gibber about sad, perverse lonely activities that you seem to be too knowledgable about not to engage in yourself?
    “do you really believe that GWB would actually arrest those that disgree with his policies”
    Its been done before. It happens all over the world, even now. Why so hard to believe?
    “Do you really believe that fair minded American
    People would allow it?”
    Yup. Theve done so before. The Japanese-American Internment camps during the war. (for trek fans, I think George Takai was in one of them…) The Mcarthy Communist Trials. These were people who held views that were considered Anti-American, many of them had been living happily in America all their lives. But if they were commies, they got arrested, usually shopped in by their friendly neighbors.
    Looks like your the uber goofy one. Go get a life, or preferably a history book, and read it.
    Learn.
    Think.
    Grow.
    Stop dragging those knuckles, monkeyboy.
    If you don’t like Wils site, the answer is so simple that even you could follow it. You won’t even need a step-by-step guide.
    Just dont come here.
    Its that simple.
    Now go away, the rest of us are busy evolving. We got past swinging from trees ages ago. Give it a try sometime.

  16. This will probably get missed in the flood of comments, but…
    1. If our civil rights have been so badly eroded, how can we complain on the Internet. I noticed that DU is hardly hidden in any way. The Secret Service could shut them down anytime they wanted. There are overzealous idiots on “both” sides and everywhere you look. Keep calling them on their idiocy, of course, but we are hardly living in a police state.
    2. Of course Bush is not the best qualified candidate for President. Really well qualified people get other jobs that pay better and have less heartache associated with them. Personally, I think Bush seems relatively competent FOR A POLITICIAN. The disclaimer is important since I don’t think politicians, in general, are all that competent.
    Bolie IV

  17. I have been irate many times as I sat here reading this web page. I can see it’s useless to point fingers or insult or call names. I support the war on terror. I support the constitution. I support good, honest, hardworking, America-supporting people. And I am glad to live in a country that supports people that support ALL of the opinions put forth on this page.

  18. I am a British TV producer researching news stories for the BBC and it may be helpful for you to follow up the College Student’s Intimidation story in a new book called “The Greatest Sedition Is Silence – Four Years In America” by William Rivers Pitt – (writer and teacher).
    Mr. Pitt’s book is a very well researched personal view of what is happening to America now under the neo-conservative Bush administration, and he seems very certain that the students were threatened with arrest and explusion for a peaceful protest in which they merely wanted to turn their backs on George W. Bush.
    William Rivers Pitt edits the excellent news and comment website at:
    http://www.truthout.org
    There may be more back up for the college story in the site’s archives.

  19. I’m tired of Americans – including one or two on your website Will – referring to 9/11 as killing 3,000 Americans. This is nonsense.
    Please let me explain why.
    (a)just over 3,000 people were killed on 9/11.
    (b) people who were killed on 9/11 came from over 60 countries.
    I find any claim made by Americans that 9/11 was only an attack on Americans offensive and arrogant.
    Please ask visitors to your website to get their facts straight.
    Secondly, Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.
    All the best and have a good Christmas,
    Brian Gregory

  20. Will,
    The reason I am so annoyed when many – but not all -Americans claim 9/11 killed over 3,000 Americans is because this is untrue and implies Americans do not care about the non-Americans who lost their lives for CNN tells us in ‘9/11 victims’ names posted at Ground Zero’ http://www.cnn.com/2002/us/09/10/ar911.wtc.names.numbers/index.html tells us the total number of those who died at the World Trade Center (including those who died on the hijacked planes but excluding the hijackers) were 2,797 people; the number of people who died in the attack on the Pentagon (including those who died in the hijacked plane but excluding the hijackers) were 184 people and the 40 people who died on the hijacked Pennsylvania plane (excluding the hijackers) and 403 police and emergency service workers. This brings the total to 3,424 people.
    The people who died on 9/11 came from 85 nations not only the United States. For the full list of nations please go to: ‘The International Toll of September 11th 2001′ http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/terrormap.htm
    Best wishes,
    Brian Gregory

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    Commission on University Career Opportunity (CUCO); Woburn House, 20 Tavistock
    Square, London WC1H 9HQ Tel. 020 7419 4111 Fax. 020 7388 6256
    E-mail: [email protected]
    DfEE Work-Life Balance and
    The Universities’ and Colleges’ Staff Development Agency (UCoSDA); Ingram House
    Wilkinson Street, The University of Sheffield, Sheffield S10 2GJ Tel. 0114
    222 1335
    Fax. 0114 222 1333 E-mail: [email protected]
    Before above responsible adiministrations this letter was been sent to the close
    authorities as “Sagoformaterat

  22. WORK RIGHTS are the CONTEMPORARY BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS///SAGA-formated OPEN LETTER
    to the responsible on Work Unions and main Labour Movements:
    Equal Opportunities Commission (EOC); Customer Contact Point; Overseas House
    Quay Street, Manchester M3 3HN , Tel. 0161 833 9244 , Fax. 0161 835 1657
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Commission for Racial Equality (CRE); Elliot House, 10-12 Allington Street,
    London SW1E 5EH, United Kingdom Tel. 020 7828 7022 Fax 020 7630 7605
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Disability Rights Commission (DRC); DRC Help-line , Freepost MID 02164,
    Stratford-Upon-Avon CV37 9BR Tel. 08457 622 633 Fax. 08457 622
    611
    Textphone 08457 622 644 E-mail: [email protected]
    Commission on University Career Opportunity (CUCO); Woburn House, 20 Tavistock
    Square, London WC1H 9HQ Tel. 020 7419 4111 Fax. 020 7388 6256
    E-mail: [email protected]
    DfEE Work-Life Balance and
    The Universities’ and Colleges’ Staff Development Agency (UCoSDA); Ingram House
    Wilkinson Street, The University of Sheffield, Sheffield S10 2GJ Tel. 0114
    222 1335
    Fax. 0114 222 1333 E-mail: [email protected]
    Before above responsible adiministrations this letter was been sent to the close
    authorities as “Sagoformaterat

  23. WORK RIGHTS are the CONTEMPORARY BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS///SAGA-formated OPEN LETTER
    to the responsible on Work Unions and main Labour Movements:
    Equal Opportunities Commission (EOC); Customer Contact Point; Overseas House
    Quay Street, Manchester M3 3HN , Tel. 0161 833 9244 , Fax. 0161 835 1657
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Commission for Racial Equality (CRE); Elliot House, 10-12 Allington Street,
    London SW1E 5EH, United Kingdom Tel. 020 7828 7022 Fax 020 7630 7605
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Disability Rights Commission (DRC); DRC Help-line , Freepost MID 02164,
    Stratford-Upon-Avon CV37 9BR Tel. 08457 622 633 Fax. 08457 622
    611
    Textphone 08457 622 644 E-mail: [email protected]
    Commission on University Career Opportunity (CUCO); Woburn House, 20 Tavistock
    Square, London WC1H 9HQ Tel. 020 7419 4111 Fax. 020 7388 6256
    E-mail: [email protected]
    DfEE Work-Life Balance and
    The Universities’ and Colleges’ Staff Development Agency (UCoSDA); Ingram House
    Wilkinson Street, The University of Sheffield, Sheffield S10 2GJ Tel. 0114
    222 1335
    Fax. 0114 222 1333 E-mail: [email protected]
    Before above responsible adiministrations this letter was been sent to the close
    authorities as “Sagoformaterat

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