For months, whenever I visit gaming sites I care about, someone is laying into me about Tabletop. Things like, “He doesn’t care about the fans” and “He took everyone’s money and didn’t spend it on the show” and “Nobody who is a real gamer takes this show seriously” or “I hate Tabletop because [thing someone decided I did, whether I actually did it or not.]”
I’m pretty good at not having a fuck to give about things, especially from power gamers who aren’t in my target audience, and who will probably never be happy with what I do. For the first two seasons of Tabletop, “Thank you for your comment. Please direct any further comments to that brick wall, and remember that we made this for free,” was my standard response. The people who loved what we did vastly outnumbered the people who complained about the show and about me and about all the delightful things people complain about. And that’s fine. Not everyone likes everything. My goal was to make more gamers in the world, and we’ve certainly succeeded in that. If we never make any more Tabletop, I’ll always feel very good about that.
There’s this thing that we talk about in production, in acting classes, and on the set. It’s this idea that if you feel good about something you made or worked on, and someone shits on it, who cares? You’re happy with it, you made the thing you wanted to make, and they made comments. You can stand by your choices. But there’s another side of it, and it’s why so many of my fellow creative people are as selective as they can be about the projects they do: when you do something that you don’t feel good about, whatever the reason was that you did it, and someone shits on it, it strikes a nerve. When you should have known better, and you didn’t trust your instincts, it strikes a nerve. When you count on someone to do the thing they were supposed to do, and they didn’t, it strikes a nerve.
So when I am accused, over and over and over again of not caring about Tabletop, not caring enough to get the rules right, not caring about the audience, or feeling complacent because of reasons — it strikes a nerve, because I work incredibly hard to be good to our audience. It strikes a nerve because I care a lot, especially this season, because for over twenty thousand people, it wasn’t free, and the only brick wall I care about has all their names on it. Written by hand, by amazing production assistants.
Yesterday, after being beaten up on r/boardgames yet again, I wanted to address that, and explain how things happened this season that are not up to my standards. It wasn’t my intention to do any of the things I’ve been accused of doing, but enough people I trust and respect have all said the same thing to me, so I clearly didn’t communicate my feelings clearly. I counted on someone who had never let me down, and they profoundly let me down, when it mattered the most. I feel that the backers of the show deserve to know what happened, why it happened, and how it made me feel. What I wanted to say was: this is what happened. This is why that happened. This is how it made me feel. I am angry, and embarrassed, and I kind of don’t even want to do another season of the show.
I didn’t do that well. I stand by telling the truth about what happened, but I wish I’d done it in a better way. I hope you’ll continue to enjoy Tabletop, because a lot of people worked very hard to make it the best show we could make it. In a lot of ways, I believe we have succeeded. In some other ways, we’ve clearly fallen short. I want you to know that I care. I cared during production, and I care now. I realize that this will continue to not be good enough for some people, unnecessary for others, and is unlikely to do anything other than prolong the Internet hatefest I’m presently receiving. But this is one of those things that I need to write for me.
I accept responsibility for my tone, and my words. I don’t apologize for being angry, embarrassed, and disappointed.
I feel like I managed to alienate myself from a community that I love and care about, and I may never be let back in. That hurts a lot, but if it’s a self-inflicted wound, I have nobody to blame but myself. I can’t even blame the dice.
Apology accepted. I wasn’t a huge fan of the tone in the previous post, and said so in what I hope was a nice way, and this is exactly what I was hoping to see. My family and I are huge fans of Tabletop, and would happily back a 4th season.
We were gamers before, but were quite stuck in our ways, and were hesitant to venture into uncharted game territory and part ways with precious money for a game not knowing if we would enjoy it or not. Watching the show helped us see games in action in a way that helped us to feel confident with new purchases. Since we started watching the show we have bought many many of the featured games, and SO many more. We now have a collection of over 100 games, and have turned many friends onto the hobby, and always direct them to Tabletop. Most importantly we have cultivated a love of games in our 3boys that I’m sure will last them a lifetime, and I am truly thankful for that.
You’ve done good. Keep it up. 🙂
“[…] I kind of don’t even want to do another season of the show.”
It’s sad but completely understandable. You admit mistakes happened and you’ll do something about it and people give you shit about it. If I were you my motivation to continue would be pretty low as well. I really hope this changes again, even if we won’t see season 4.
I also hope you give that producer a chance to regain your trust.
I don’t happen to watch the show because I don’t happen to enjoy games all that much. But I do read many of your posts about the show, and I can CLEARLY tell how much you care about it. I’m sorry this happened, because I can imagine how devastating it can feel from several angles.
Hey Wil,
I really don’t see what I can add to the positive outpouring here. Everyone has already echoed my own sentiments tenfold. So, just know, dude, you have my support. I enjoy your work. I thank you for your time, effort, and sincerity. I thank you for TableTop, which I watch, not just to learn about new games to bring to my home gaming group, but because every person you bring to the table seems like someone I would thoroughly enjoy gaming with. I watch to vicariously join the group; to laugh, and fret, and grump, and cheer right along with my fortnightly friends. I do so hope that TableTop continues production, but I sympathize with your hurt (as an erstwhile college professor I know the pain of pouring effort and heart into a product only to have it dismissed or trashed by a portion of the audience), and I’ll support you if you need to walk away. So thank you again. And my thanks to all at TableTop production. I know it’s a great team effort. You and yours, and all at TableTop are welcome at my gaming table any time.
Q
Hey Wil,
I haven’t really followed your show, as I’m what you’d call a “hardcore gamer”, so I get news somewhere else.
But I watched a couple of episodes. And they are informative and ABOVE ALL entertaining.
You are doing a great service to the game community by letting people in with a smiley face, people who otherwise would be thinking that boardgames are boring.
We need more fun, and less self-righteous kids.
So… keep up the good work.
“Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.”
– Dante, Divina Commedia, Inferno, Canto III, 51
Wil, you must know better than anybody else that the internet is full of jerks who will never be happy – and want EVERYBODY to read about what makes them angry day after day.
I am not alone when I say that Tabletop is one of the only forms of entertainment that I truly look forward to.
Please keep up the good work. If you manage to piss off some jerks along the way, no harm done.
Wil,
TableTop and the the work you have done on it have profoundly changed my life. You have introduced me to games that I never knew existed. You have helped me build a stronger relationship with my son and wife through playing games. Thank you.
I’d like to add my voice to the supportive, encouraging mob (as opposed to the other mob that seems to be a lot smaller, yet frequently much louder) about the positives of Tabletop and why I don’t want this to be why it ends.
I’ve really enjoy watching Tabletop for several seasons, I don’t get a lot of chances to play boardgames these days, so I enjoy watching Tabletop as both a Let’s play of games I’m curious about and a way of finding games I should try on the rare occasions when I can get some friends out to a gaming cafe. I’d be sad to see the show end prematurely.
If I were in Wil’s shoes, I’d at least as frustrated and embarassed about messing up the rules (regardless of whose responsible) because I’d feel that I’d mis-represented someone else’s work. I respect where he’s coming from on that. However, if it is any consolation, messing up and arguing about the rules is a part of gaming and as long as everyone is still having fun. When I’ve seen a rule here or there get messed up on the show before, I’ve thought “Yeah I’ve been there”, rather than feeling that it diminishes the show.
Taking further steps to prevent such errors from happening as much as possible makes sense and I encourage thinking along those lines. I’d see that as an opportunity to improve the brand of Tabletop, which already has a lot going for it, not a reason to retire it.
I realize that all creative projects have a finite lifetime, the people involved will inevitably want to grow and move on to other things. While Tabletop will have to end eventually, it deserves to do so on a high note, celebrating a job well done by the team. The current unpleasantness shouldn’t need to be a part of that conversation.
For what it’s worth as a backer of Tabletop S3 I am very pleased with the production quality, the guests, and the level of professionalism. Like all things occasionally there are mistakes (or in this case severe errors) made but it has not reduced my enjoyment of what is (for me) a showcase of the fun of playing boardgames.
I realize you feel responsible because you are the forward face of the show, but to any sort of shame you feel I will hand wave it away. Tabletop is nothing to be ashamed of. It is an incredible achievement that will always be remembered (for as long as you continue to make it) as a fun place that cool people play games and have fun which inspires other people to do the same.
I have played games completely wrong more than once (sometimes for YEARS!) and it happens. Regrettably your gaffe has been preserved on video but it does not invalidate the fun. Think of it as a ‘variant” rules.
Something occurred to me, looking at those Reddit comments…
Behind every rules lawyer is probably a noob who was hectored about the rules until it wasn’t fun anymore.
Behind every complaint about bad boss behavior is probably someone who’s been hurt by a bad boss. (Or perhaps a boss who’s hurt themselves with that kind of behavior, and regrets it.)
And that’s not your stuff to own. And some haters are just gonna hate. But it might be a thing to consider as you process those comments.
I hope the joy of the games you share with us, and the community around them, returns for you soon. We’ll hold it for you until then.
Wil,
Please know that your show, TableTop, has opened a completely new avenue of communication between me and my two kids (ages 15 and 13). Games are not just for ‘gamers’, as your show is able to truly show.
And who amongst us doesn’t have a set of ‘house rules’ that modify or completely change the established printed rules of a game? Yeah, we all do.
So, please keep making this fun show you do called TableTop. Please keep helping us parents out here to find new ways of talking with our kids (of all ages). Please keep being you.
Thank you (and your crew!) for all your fine and hard work!
Hi Wil,
I understand and respect where you are coming from. I am cut from a similar cloth and always work to put out my best, whether it’s in my classroom or with my writing.
I see many comments that echo what I have to say, but perhaps hearing it one more time might help.
I have enjoyed every episode of Tabletop. I’m a lifelong gamer. I can’t think of a single night where we didn’t nudge the rules, forget a mechanic, or simply wing it.
I don’t think you show or my enjoyment of it has ever been diminished by a deviation or modification or mistake that’s been made during play.
Your show is such a pleasure to watch and I hope you choose to continue to produce more episodes.
Titansgrave is killing it. Well done. Here’s to a long and successful life for the show.
Keep doing what you’re doing, brother.
Tom
Look forwards, not backwards. If getting the rules right bugs you, do better next season. You can personally make that happen!
If it’s still bugging you, then take a step back. Relax. Refocus elsewhere. Then go to Chipotle and have a burritto. You’ll feel better. It makes me feel better – at least until the next morning.
Will – You’ve brought more good into the world with TT and all the positive thoughts you’ve expressed to your fellow nerds / geeks / freaks out there. Personally, I hope I get the chance to support S4 of TT. It’s been a blast to watch and learn about a ton of games I never would have picked up myself. Screw the a*holes – crack open a WootStout and relax. You’ve certainly earned it!
Wil,
People can be shitty, shitty, shitty, small, petty, angry, miserable, shitty individuals. The work that you do (TableTop and otherwise), the genuine earnestness with which you do that work, and the large success of your work are all a credit to you.
I completely sympathize with the tendency to focus my anxiety on any perceived mistakes or failings. But when I do, others remind me of all the good in my work. So, I felt that it was important to comment on this to say: We don’t all hate you. We love and appreciate TableTop. I was so happy to be able to contribute to Season 3 funding, and I have not disliked a single moment from this season. I am a part of two separate groups of people who follow Tabletop regularly and pick up all those cool games that you’ve shown to us.
The show aside, I’m a big fan. However you decide to move forward is completely your decision and, I’m sure, will carry the weight of much deliberation. But, the point of my commenting is to show enthusiastic, emphatic, overwhelming positive support for a you and your work. Keep up the good work! Huzzah for nerds!
Team Aoefel forever!
-CowboyHatMatt ^_^
First off, kudos to the production assistants. It’s cool knowing that everyone’s names are up there.
Beyond that, I just want to say thanks for making table top. It’s nice to be able to watch people play and have fun when I can’t. I often put it on when I’m working so in this case I’m actually completely baffled as to what wasn’t right (other that Yuri’s stomach, I did notice that part…).
While I’m here I also want to say that Titans Grave is awesome so far and I’m really enjoying it.
So … thanks.
As a season 3 backer, I just wanted to let you know that I have been very happy with this season both regular Tabletop and Titansgrave! And I would without hesitation back a season 4 if you need it.
As a gamer who enjoys all types of games, I have discovered games that I probably wouldn’t have noticed or given a shot otherwise. I’ve also learned that there are some games which while awesome for other people, just aren’t my cup of tea. Which allows me time to focus on games that I will enjoy more.
And as someone who has never gotten all the rules 100% right the first time (and with some games, never), I understand that mistakes happen. They’re always going to happen, plus if you didn’t make mistakes, we wouldn’t get owlbear telling us the correct version. And owlbear makes everything better. 😉
I can’t even pretend to understand how it feels to be you on the internet with all the un-happy people out there. But know there are plenty of us who comment rarely who are behind you 100% and are very aware how much you love this hobby. If you never make more Tabletop, I will understand, however, I will also be disappointed. But do what you need to. And know that if you ever want to play games with a complete stranger and her friends, there is always a place at my table for you.
I didn’t have a problem with the tone of that post, at all. If anything, I felt like you showed remarkable restraint.
Dude. Remember non-judgmental ninja?
You’re fine, man. Just because a few thousand people paid money to help build something that you ALSO love, that doesn’t mean that they get to complain when someone YOU do is done in a way they wouldn’t have done it.
Be true, my friend. That’s all any reasonable person can ask.
Wil sucks! The absolute WORST! Okay, not really… I love the show and have no idea what all the fuss is about. But, I always try to be part of the struggling minority. Viva la resistance! Off with Wil’s head!
Well, just one guy
s opinion here but here we go: You took one of my favorite games, Coup, and butchered the rules. And that
s ok. You played it wrong, but consistently, and the episode was entertaining, like each other so far. But you know the internet, the bad outvoices the good, every single time. So dont worry about not being accepted. There are a bunch of people that do not care for your show, and that
s ok, there a bunch of dicks who think you have to be perfect every time and that they are entitled to the show. Ignore them. And there are plenty of people that will correct you if needed, but above all, will have your back, and will support this show like that did before.There is something a wise guy said once, and it`s very fitting here. Wil, play more games!
Wil,
Well done mate. I wasn’t a fan of your initial wording of your apology either. But you’ve done right by this mate. I could see the intent in your first apology – I just think it was poorly executed.
But regardless – my family still loves Tabletop. Every episode that comes out we wait until we are all together for the evening and then sit down and watch it over dinner (excepting some more adult appropriate ones – young kids). Then when it has finished the kids all start begging me to get the game.
Mistakes happen. Meh…. and I and my family are of ‘hardcore/power” gamer stripe. And we love your show. We were backers for this season and we will 100% back next season.
If you give us the opportunity to back another season.
Don’t let one blip in the track of three great seasons stop you from another great season – and continuing to provide an effect of positiveness worldwide to families, friends and all peoples of different walks of life.
We support yours and all the teams’ efforts and hard work in this production. Please give us the opportunity to show you once again how much we believe in this product.
Wil,
I’m autistic and frankly don’t get out much. People are really hard for me. I pretty much make just enough money to keep a roof over my head and the lights/internet on. But watching Tabletop and Titansgrave make me feel like I’ve got a gaming group at my back – that there are people who won’t judge me for anything, people who just want to have fun and be kind and shut out the world for a while.
Of course, I’d understand if you chose not to make another season, because you MUST do what’s best for your own mental health. But at the same time … I’m literally in tears at the thought that there might not be any more to look forward to. Without Fiasco, I wouldn’t be writing a novel. Without Ticket to Ride, I never would have found Eureka. Without Cards Against Humanity I never would have encountered Aisha Tyler and her hilariousness (though maybe I would have, given she seems to be everywhere now).
Please don’t underestimate the massive force of good that you are for some of us. Please. Wishing you strength and good fortune, and remember some advice that my best friend in the world gave me at a particularly dark time in my life – if you pack it up, those motherfuckers win.
Just remember that you’re taking entertainment criticism from reddit…
That’s like getting your dating advice from Tinder.
Wil,
I enjoy watching Tabletop but I’m not watching it to get a full “How to Play” instruction on the game. I watch to see different games, how they look with all the components and a general idea of the gameplay. I enjoy watching you and your guests play the games and have a generally fun time playing.
Tabletop is the reason why I have bought some of the games in my collection. Dead of Winter and Kingdom Builder will be two others I buy because of your show along with a couple of others.
Don’t let a few discourage you from doing your show. The vast majority who watch enjoy it. Your show has made a big impact on the gaming community. Please keep on doing your show!!!
If you ever make your way to New Jersey look up Double Exposure conventions. I think you would enjoy yourself there. I met Steve Jackson at one of their conventions shorty after he was on your show. I asked him about your show and he had a great time.
Keep up the good work!!
Wow, someone actually cares what people on the internet say?
There’s your problem right there, Wesley.
Honestly, it is a bit nauseating that all the sycophants feel the need to defend your wounded dove routine.
Hey people of the internet! TT is fine, yes rules lawyers suck, it IS all about having fun, and a lot of this has been blown way out of proportion. All true, but that doesn’t excuse everything.
The last post was a self serving, “please love me!”, whine. He didn’t take responsibility, he WHINED, about something very much in his control.
I’m sorry all of us don’t fall down at his feet like y’all. He did a cappy thing and he is getting called out. I’m glad it seems he is learning from it, I’m sure he does care about these events as much as he claims. But have the courage to let him know when he messes up, he will be better for it, and so will all of us.
What do I have to gain from kissing Wil’s ass? He’s never going to meet me. I’m not related to him.
I don’t kiss ass. I say how I feel and what I think, and just because you’re an asshole doesn’t mean that the people supporting Wil are just ‘catering to his ego’. We actually understand and agree with what he’s said, and if you don’t like it, that’s fine, but you can bugger off with your weird rage boner.
I’ve never understood the stupid “take responsibility” line anyway. How about the producer take responsibility for what he or she fucked up? How about that person apologize to us for their mistakes, instead of making Wil do it when his only mistake was trusting that person? Talk about lack of accountability.
Grow a sense of compassion, maybe. Or just fuck off, we’d probably all be happier.
I know you are not a fan of religion or religious people. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian and over dinner one evening my priest and his wife gave me some good advice. He told me that it’s okay to have things that are private, not everyone needs to know all the details. I think in this situation with Table Top we didn’t have to know all the details. You seem like a great guy with a good heart and I have no doubt that this show means alot to you. But maybe just saying ” We dropped the ball with a few things this season, we are working on it and will do better next time” Is all that is needed. I know people want more, and you are such a kind and open person maybe you feel lead to give people more.But maybe sometimes a simple answer is best. My 12 year old son and I love your show Table Top. We have watched several episodes together and he thinks you are just funny and great! I do too! I hope you come back for another season with Table Top I think it would be great healing for you. Also, you are so good at it, you have a very special talent that reaches out to a part of the Geek World. I pray great blessings for you in any future projects but I do hope Table Top will still be one of them. God Bless and thank you for Table Top.
Hi Wil,
People will always throw crap at other people. Be that they are not “pure” enough, not as hardcore as they deem themselves in their own eyes or any other stupid reason.
I started watching TableTop at season 1, and while being somewhat around the area (playing RPS, video games, sci-fi and fantasy books) I was never aware of the new exciting things in the table top board games world. Watching a few episodes of the first season got me to buy Catan, Dixit and TTR.
From there I refined my taste, learned which types of games I like more and which less, started to consume more table top gaming information and content and dragged my wife along the way 🙂 While not always finding the games you present to meet our taste, we still enjoy the show. Being both informative, at times showing us that me might have misjudged a game and we should try it, and mainly being fun. Which bottom line, it’s what games are all about.
My 2 years old is going to get from us a few board games recommended on BGG’s forums for this age and as first time games. My wife and I are hooked, hopefully we’ll pass it to our daughters. So you can mark +2 with a potential +2 more to the count of new gamers.
Keep on doing what you’re doing.
Wil I appreciate what you do and thank you for showing that Board Gamers are not all stereotypical fat sweaty males who live in basements. Some of us are family men who enjoy a great game that has more to it than Sorry or Monopoly and that Board Games are for more than just kids. I have gotten rules wrong so many times it is sad. I know you played a super genius on Star Trek but you are human. Don’t sweat the nerdrage. Remember “Don’t be a Dick”
I am not sure the people who bitch about you are part of the community you care about. In the last few years I have seen BGG turn rather ugly and snarky and become just another grumpy part of the net. I think when any online community is invaded by the masses once it gets big sees an uptick in negativity. If you really want examples watch the Martin Wallace, zman Stephan feld, and origins threads full of nasty complaints I rarely have seen before. It is to the point where a large amount of vets don’t post anymore. Go to opiniated gamers website and no one talks shit about you. I am just a bit older than you and have been back into hard core gaming since 2000. I have seen conventions like gencon go from places where I knew all the companies and even volunteered for them to becoming a place where so many hustlers want a piece that I refuse to deal with it.
Some suggestions if you want to fight back. Go to cons with fans that have your back so that when people start giving you shit let them politely deal with it. Show up to some random game days unannounced and meet the people, post some more on BGG and just ignore the negative threats maintain a positive attitude like a Buddhist monk and when it gets bad take a break. Last find your core BGG fans and communicate with and through them. I am johnnyspys on BGG. I can give you free advice about rules, get you in contact with the major and meaningful blogs that I promise look to you as a positive force, and more importantly I won’t ask you questions about anything other than gaming unless you want to talk music. People forget you are just a human, so I promise we will give you space. And we won’t stalk you, nag you, and if you check the threads we make fun of the hate people give you because in the end they just hate you because they are envious and wish they could fuck up a game on a tv show. We all fuck up rules I know I have. The only difference is when you do it its in front of millions.
If your serious hit me up. By the way lat time I talked to vassal and Ryan from the dice tower they get a ton of shit every month. Someone went on a long diatribe about the length of Ryan’s fingernails.
I forgot to say, I can give real examples of the massive positive impact on gaming. I call it the Wheaton effect. I have had several games up for sale on BGG that just sat there, sometimes for a year always the cheapest but not cheap enough to lose a ton of money. On several occasion I will out of the blue get a flurry of messages asking to buy and I will jokingly ask was this just in tabletop and they will always say yes. As soon as you have a game on tabletop the game sells out in stores. Betrayal shold owe you a buck a game for the massive push you gave the game. Epic spell wars went from an obscure fun little game few cared about to a big smash. Do me a favor and play a Martin Wallace game. That guy needs a break and would be very thankful I am sure.
If TableTop goes away for a while (I hope it doesn’t… but if it does) then you deserve that break. You’ve already done a service to the gaming community at large, and to many thousands of individuals who have discovered that board games can be really fun because of your efforts.
It’s obvious you care, otherwise you wouldn’t be making the continued effort you do. And while there will always be vocal detractors, there are a lot of us viewers who care about what you are doing with the show and understand that mistakes happen for all kinds of reasons. Don’t forget that we are here supporting you, even if we aren’t as loud as the complainers! 🙂
Wil, it is the loudest people that get listened to the most, and this has caused so many nerd-enterprises suffer.
Not sure if you ever read Spider-Man in the ’90s, but the Clone Saga was supposed to be a much shorter, much more concise story that allowed Spidey to retire. “Fans” hated it and complained. And complained. And complained. And, because these “fans” were the loudest, Marvel (admittedly in a state of flux) cowed to the complainers and delivered the hot mess that was the Clone Saga.
This is one example. Gamersgate a more recent one.
Don’t let the loudest minority in our board gaming culture drag you down. The (unfortunately silent) majority love you and what you do. We know that, without your work, the board gamer pool would be much more stagnate than it has been in recent years.
Honestly, it makes me very sad to hear that, because of the loudmouths, the complainers, the self-entitled dicks, we might not get more TableTop.
Being 100% selfish, I love TableTop. It is my favorite televised show, across and medium. It features people I enjoy and respect, all partaking in one of my all-time favorite activities, and making it so much better than it has been.
Don’t worry about the mistakes or the small stuff, if we wanted to learn the rules for games, there are hundreds of other, incredibly boring, channels/videos for that. We want to see something most channels rarely show:
People having fun playing board games.
You do that. You do that so damn well that it is incredibly sad that anyone has made you feel otherwise.
Keep your head up, if you can, Wil. You’ve got way more support than all that other stuff, we just don’t always know how/when to speak up.
Tabletop is great. Things don’t always come together perfectly around my game table- we stop to look up rules, we get things wrong, I teach games poorly, sometimes someone doesn’t have a good time, sometimes people have to leave before the game’s over.
I get to watch Tabletop for free, and I use it in the college games class I teach, so I’m quite content for you and your crew to get things mostly right and introduce new games to people and keep this hobby exploding in such a cool way, which you and your team and your friends do. I hope you don’t stop on our account.
Just be glad it wasn’t Monopoly… No bugger gets that one right apparently.
I don’t know you from Adam, but I like your work and find Tabletop an entertaining way to introduce people to games.
And if there’s people tearing into you on reddit…. Well, you’re a celebrity on the internet. I’m sure there are people who are still mad about your performance in that thing you did all those years ago (you know, the thing, with those other people in it), and have no problems hating everything else you do for it. Plus, you’re living the dream: playing games, hanging out with other famous folk, goofing around, and making a few bucks for doing it (we’ll ignore the actual work involved). Heck, I’m getting jealous just thinking about it! Ahem….
Having said all that, I -totally- get the embarrassment that comes from showing someone a new game and getting the rules wrong. Maybe not in front of a few hundred thousand people, but still.
I guess we can see that you’re stressed. But thank you so much for pushing through with TableTop and Titansgrave. If there’s a season four I’ll be watching.
Don’t listen to them!
TableTop is an entertaining, informative show which introduces people to the best aspects of gaming. The social interactions and the fun of taking part. And Titansgrave is just Awesome!
I have returned to table top gaming after an absence of more than a decade due in part to the influence of TableTop. And my teenage daughter is also showing interest after seeing what other types of games are available other then the traditional ‘family’ board games.
You have apologized and the majority of people are happy with that. The vocal minority should be politely ignored.
Sadly I have very little else that I could say without lowering myself to the haters level and engaging trolls in the arguments they love.
Other than,
we all love TableTop and we know you do too.
Wil:
I watch for entertainment purposes and not to watch people play by the rules. I have not missed an episode this season and nothing will keep me from upcoming episodes.
I backed Table Top not only to get a third season but to also say thank you for seasons 1 and 2. I don’t regret that decision at all and would happily back a 4th because I know you get things sorted out.
Titansgrave – I don’t play RPGs, not my thing, but I have not missed an episode. Good job with that 🙂
Hang in there – you are doing good work with Table Top.
Wil,
I’m not a board-gamer, but I’ve watched every episode of Table Top. I watch it for the same reasons I watch other things – It’s engaging. It’s interesting. It’s entertaining. And, most of all, it’s positive. You’re not another channel of “Epic Fails” or “Road Rage” or general YouTube Dick Behavior. You are sitting with a group of friends and having a good time. Rules? Did you enjoy playing the game? Did you and the cast have a good time? Great. I enjoyed watching it. I didn’t know the rules going in, and I still don’t. Still enjoyed the show.
People make Things. People are not perfect. Therefore, not all Things can be perfect. I’m sure you’ve brewed beers that didn’t come out right, even though you did everything you thought you knew how to do. You can’t un-brew that beer, you can only learn from it what not to do next time. You still love beer and the process of brewing it. Maybe some of these shows were a batch that was a little off.
Meh. Play more games. Laugh. Give r/whatever the finger and spend that time with your real friends.
I have never played a tabletop game in my life, being the solitary sort. I watch Tabletop because I love the stories and the way the participants (especially you, Wil) interact with each other. It’s hilarious and fun. I don’t give a crap about the rules…in fact, the rules are the least interesting part for me. Half the time, I have no idea what’s going on in terms of rule-following, but it’s still so fun to watch. I am also a perfectionist, so I respect you for getting pissed that things weren’t done to your standards, but you have to remember there’s a whole contingent of people who watch the show for the people, not the games.
Sadly Wil, I think you’ve lost me. I’ve had a lot of respect and admiration for you and what you have done for gaming, your self-deprecating sense of humour (which we Australians really appreciate) in Big Bang Theory and The Guild, and your honesty in sharing certain experiences of your life. I was looking forward to sitting down and watching Titansgrave, but now it would just put a sour taste in my mouth, and that is a shame.
The problem is, in this post, you’re still hanging it on the other guy. It’s just not right. Remember your own law. This just reads as a clayton’s* apology for the previous clayton’s apology. (ie. it’s not a real apology at all.)
I don’t read reddit because of its reputation for “haters”, so I didn’t even understand what “r/boardgames” meant (I had to do a search!). I only read about 30 replies to your original post and by far, they weren’t “haters” at all, just calling you out on your own behaviour, in mostly a pretty simple, but direct, way.
Time may change my feelings on this. I hope so. I accept that everyone deserves a second chance.
All the best. Hopefully everyone will learn from it.
(* not sure if anyone outside Oz knows the “clayton’s reference”. It’s an old TV advertisement for non-alcoholic whiskey … “the drink you’re having when you’re not having a drink” … so, this, to me, is “the apology you’re giving when you’re not (really) giving an apology”.)
For fuck’s sake, what do you want him to do? Grovel? Someone ELSE made egregious mistakes. Wil was justifiably angry about that. Why should he apologize for someone else being a lazy asshole? You people just want to fight.
Please take a moment to reflect, because what you are doing here is basically what you accuse others of.
Rohan’s post was critical, yet civilized, while you are just throwing accusations at him. I can understand that Wil and his show are important to you and you want to defend him, but
1. he doesn’t really need you to speak for him
2. if you keep getting carried away you do him no good by actually sounding much like those “haters”.
It’s hypocritical to hold someone to standards that you (general you) don’t hold yourself to. I see a lot of that hypocrisy in those who are STILL offended by something that frankly doesn’t deserve the attention it’s getting. I wish it would stop. That’s all.
I agree completely. That is basically what I wanted to remind you (personal you) of as well.
Personally, I don’t care about rule errors, but Wils first post irritated me a bit because I agree with others here that taking responsibility and blaming the fault on someone else are mutually exclusive.
That said, there actually is no discussion to be had since in this case there clearly is no objective truth, but different opinions. And as long as someone abides by general rules of civility, letting them express their opinion is crucial to any communication.
Accurately worded and this is exactly how I feel. I’ll sign this comment off.
You adressed the issue in the wrong way the first time around and now did good.
Everybody should be entitled to make mistakes but as the frontman for something you always take credit and blame for everything.
Keep up the good work!
Learn from it and move forward. Table Top rocks, don’t stop!
I started playing tabletop games because of your show. I started visiting and supporting my local mom and pop game store because of your show. I have meaningful family time spent playing tabletop games with my kids because of your show. Mistakes get made, but the impact you have had on myself and my family with your show is profound and I deeply thank you for it. Ignore the haters. The good you have done greatly outweighs anything else. I thank you and will continue to support you.
For someone that has a motto of “Don’t be a dick” throwing someone under the bus repeatedly sure is a dick move.
Throwing Wil under the bus for someone else’s actions is just as dickish you know. He has apologized for the delivery but the message is perfectly valid. He trusted someone to do a job and they let him down. If a mechanic fixed you car badly would you tell everyone you did it wrong yourself, no, no-one would.
Oh Barry walk out out of your moms basement and get some air. It will be good for you.
Before I get to express my opinion which is not any more valid than anybodys else I put money into season 3 ( twice because I worried the targets wouldn’t be met which just goes how much I don’t get out into the fresh air ) and I didn’t read the explanation of what went wrong with season 3 in Mr Wheatons opinion I think Geek and Sundry on the whole seems to be having a identity crisis but that’s a another topic.
Was anything wrong with season 3 ? Not for me. I thought the dynamics between some of the guests was not great and I thought cards against humanity a good cure for insomnia but the production values were good, the games on the whole were visually good and the guests pretty much nailed it considering a lot of the guests were playing for the first time ( cant imagine Karen Gillen gets a lot of spare time to sit down and game ) but unless your familiar with the games which im not it worked great I always figured the show was a primer to encourage people to game rather than be sacred cow to boardgamers.
If Mr Wheaton doesn’t do a season 4 that’s his prerogative but whatever he does he will have haters so he should stay off message boards but I hope season 4 happens and is funded the same way as season 3 that way fans of the show can show appreciation while the trolls get the show for nowt.
I hear you Wil,
You just can’t control everything, particularly with the production of a show – TV/Webseries, doesn’t matter – the same amount of effort goes into making it the best you can. When you work collaboratively, it’s never going to turn out exactly as you had originally envisioned it. And YES, it’s more than likely that someone you depend on will let you down. But those people that criticise and shout loudest are often in the minority.
I think that the larger gaming (tabletop or otherwise) community, who DO bother to watch the show before commenting, by and large enjoy and appreciate the finished product. I personally can’t see anything bad or wrong in any of the episodes you’ve aired, EVER! Whether you get the rules right or wrong, who cares! That’s not the point of gaming. Just enjoy yourselves.
I’m one of 22,000 very proud people to have their name up there on that wall. Thank you for making my favourite webseries.
Play More Games! x